Comparison and Data: CL2 vs Headrest

I received the Headrest from my DME. I used the Headrest three nights and then the last two nights went back to my CL2. Following are pictures of the masks for people new to this whole adventure, a comparison using CPAP.com's criteria including my comments on the comparison, and data from my Respironics A-Flex Encore Pro reports.

Headrest: https://www.cpap.com/productpage.php?PNum=1717&PAID=215
CL2 https://www.cpap.com/productpage/Comfor ... -Mask.html

Comparison

I used CPAP.com's comparison criteria and assigned my own numbers to each mask, then totaled and compared. I was surprised to see the headrest total to be so low. I like the mask, but it is hard to keep a seal, noisy, headgear slips out of place, and the nasal pillow piece is harder to take off at night and put back into place than the CL2 nasal piece (to dump water).

The Headrest has a little less water in the nasal piece, but it was more problematic since I found it hard to twist off the nasal piece and dump it versus the CL2 which twists off easily and is easy to put back on during the night.

The data would say that I'm getting better therapy with the CL2. I believe it is due to a better seal and the headgear staying in place. However, the reason I went to the Headrest to begin with was because I get eyebrow soreness from the CL2 headgear pushing on my eyebrows and my forehead breaks out if I get too hot (even with the Padacheek product on it).

If the CL2 headpiece were smaller and had better air flow, then I would like the CL2 better. If the Headrest headgear would stay in place, and the rubber-like material not cause so much heat where it does contact, and if the nasal piece would stay in place and be easier to take on and put back on, then I would like the Headrest better than the CL2.

Data

CL2 Data


Headrest Data


Headrest Recommendations
- The nasal piece should have a hard plastic connector to the headgear to make it easier to take off and put back on at night.
- The nasal piece should have small loops on either side of it with a soft adjustable strap that can be positioned by choosing from a variety of loops available to it on the headgear (to stabilize the nasal piece).
- The headgear halo doesn't need to be made out of hot rubber-like material. The headgear halo should be made out of the same type of material the straps is made out of only with lots of breathing holes in it. The strap material is OK as is, but needs to be more versatile by having multiple loops on the halo to choose from so that a person can adjust for the best tension for their shape of head.
- The headgear hose should be shorter but no less flexible.
- The connector at the end of the headgear hose should be more secure so that it does not become easily disconnected.
- The headgear nasal piece adjustments should be easier to adjust. The current design allows for the piece to move multiple positions when only one notch was desired.

Looks like it's time to review the Headrest lab rat entries and see if I can reduce or eliminate the issues I'm having with it. I might even get out a good sharp cutting instrument and reduce the size of the CL2 forehead piece so it doesn't touch my eyebrows - and see what I can do to increase airflow under the headpiece. Then, it would be a great mask.

Have you tried jcarn's rubber band tweak for the headrest? It makes a major difference in the seal-ability.
I used it before I deconstructed my Headrest - and when the leaks resumed, I know I had to change rubber bands.

jcarn wrote:here it is .. with 2 rubber bands you can get the aura to fit perfectly without leaks. With this simple setup, you can pull the nasal piece close to your nose to get a better seal

Items/tools needed: 2 rubber bands, your hands



STEP 1. Loop the rubber band behind the plastic piece that controls height adjustment:



STEP 2. Stretch it up top and loop it around the plastic piece next to the hose:



top view




Repeat Steps 1 and 2 for the other side

THAT'S IT! .. If you tuck it securely around the top plastic piece, it will not move and stays put. Every piece of the headgear is accessible (you can remove the nasal piece for cleaning without disrupting the elastic setup).
Best of all, only the nasal pillows touch the face, no extra straps or steps for your nightly routine.

Edit: Oops .. links repaired .. redirected pics to new site .. thanks Ozij and RG for helpin out!

I remember you would rather not try a heated hose - but what about a cover for the narrow tube - have you tried that?

Something else that might help - for the headgear - is a folded tennis sock between it and your head.

And then of course, there are those marvelous tights (aka Rested Gal's .... ) straps to stabilize the seal....

O.

Two ok three things helped me with my Headrest seal.
1. Use Lansinoh just a dab on seals and nares. Put the extra on your lips
2. Going to a Larger size seal. Now using XL.
3. The rubber band trick. I guess if you wanted more a patented RG strap or knee high might help.
Just find something to put a bit more tension on the nosepiece.

I have not tried the CL2 but have plenty of FFM's to trade if someone wants to.
GumbyCT

Thanks for the comparison, gasp.

I wouldn't be able to use the Headrest period (it would leak like crazy for me), if I didn't place an extra strap around (and under) the nasal pillows assembly...to cradle the nasal pillows upward and steady them at my nostrils. That one extra "strap" makes all the difference in the world to me.

The extra strap is placed like the red one here, when using the Headrest with its own headgear:

The extra strap doesn't have to be tight at all although the way I drew in on there looks awfully tight. That the extra strap is simply "there" does the trick...much like holding one's fingers ever so lightly against the front of a mask will stop a leak.

Without the extra strap, I couldn't use the Headrest at all (or many other masks.) With the extra strap, the Headrest keeps a seal beautifully all night -- I'm a toss'n'turn sleeper.

Best way to tie the ends of the extra strap is with a DoubleStart Knot
How to tie a flat knot behind head when using a homemade strap:
http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/doublestartknot.htm

Of course, if you never can get the Headrest to work for you, remember to PM me! Intact or chopped to pieces... doesn't matter.

I edited my original post to include recommendations for the headrest. I would love others to post suggestions so that I can add them to the list. I'm submitting them to the manufacturer.

I think I'll try the rubber band first and then if that doesn't work the strap. I have a headband that would work great for that. Strange how the CL2 stays sealed with no problem at night. I think it's the Headrest's soft flexible nasal piece that catches on the pillow and unseats. The CL2 even with the little white jacket stays put when I rub my face into the pillow.

The reason I don't want increased upward tension is because it is giving me little tiny wrinkles under my eyes. I know, I know, wisdom, years, acceptance, etc, etc. I want the wrinkles from smiling, not from upward nasal piece pressure : )

I've recently started tucking the edges of the extra strap (actually half strap) under the forehead strap (that would be the headgear when the headgear is attached). It works great - the nose strap stabilizes the forehead strap, and the forehead strap stabilizes the nose strap!

Hardly any pressure on my nose, by the way.

O.

gasp wrote:if that doesn't work the strap. I have a headband that would work great for that.

Not to dissuade you from trying a headband as the extra strap, but.... unless the headband happens to be the perrrrrrfect diameter it may not work anywhere near as well as a loose ends strap that you can adjust exactly the way you want it. I tried several lengths of headbands down at the nasal pillows area -- usually felt way too tight or were a bit too loose, depending on exactly which way I routed the headband.

Sometimes during the night, I'll wake up to a slight leak at the nasal pillows. Often just shifting the position of the cradling strap or giving the nasal pillows a little wiggle with my hand takes care of it, but occasionally I need to tighten the whole strap a tad. It's very easy to make minute adjustments tighter or looser with the "doublestart knot." Can't make those subtle tension adjustments with a headband.

But do try a headband first...well, "second" (LOL!!) after trying the simple rubberband fix. Just don't judge how a loose-ended strap using a doublestart knot would feel and work, if a headband doesn't do well...and especially if a headband feels too snug. The cradling homemade strap doesn't have to be tight at all.

Because I am lazy and want something easy and quick I just use a headband and have it running from the front to the back of my head. The headgear is way to big for me and even adjusted to the smallest point moves around and slides around. The headband (I use a medium width one) works great stablizes it and no other straps are needed for me. It is easy to take off when I get up at night (always am up at night) and easy to pull on when I go back to bed.

Have you tried the head gear from the comfortlite (original)?

https://www.cpap.com/viewImage.php?PNum ... _RGBLo.jpg


I find it to be more comfortable than the CL2 headgear, but it works just as well for me.

Brenda

From what I see, women are the ones who do all the tweaking, fixing,beheading,reconstructing etc, of the Headrest. ( The rubber piece on the head rubs off my hair...I still didn't find a way to eliminate this, if only to put a piece of cloth under it)....
When we have ajusted it to " our contours", it's simply great!
There should definitely be a male Headrest, and a female Headrest.

by gasp on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:54 pm
I edited my original post to include recommendations for the headrest. I would love others to post suggestions so that I can add them to the list. I'm submitting them to the manufacturer.

"GASP", I'm with you 100% !
D.

As far as the CL2 bothering your eyebrows - I had something similar and ended up fiddling with which holes I use for the straps (the two at the front), the padacheek CL2 cover and finally, I adjusted the cylinder the nose-piece is attached to down as far as it would go before I put on the CL2. Then I could get it higher on my head so it didn't hit my eyebrows.

Mindy

I brought my Headrest to my titration at the VA last nite. 1st the tech tells me he didn't think anyone at my pressure (18/15cm) could use nasal pillows. After watching me sleep all nite he said "this thing seals better than the masks we have here" and at your high pressure to.

He started me out at 12/10 which he said was fine until I went to my back. He claims he only had to bump it up to chase snores stopping at 18/16cm.

GumbyCT wrote:I brought my Headrest to my titration at the VA last nite. 1st the tech tells me he didn't think anyone at my pressure (18/15cm) could use nasal pillows. After watching me sleep all nite he said "this thing seals better than the masks we have here" and at your high pressure to.

He started me out at 12/10 which he said was fine until I went to my back. He claims he only had to bump it up to chase snores stopping at 18/16cm.

I think that sleep patients would receive better therapy if all sleep clinics were to hire a full-time person who would surf this site for a half-day each day, try out the suggestions, and then present them as a weekly update-program to the drs. and sleep techs of the clinic. This board seems to be so far ahead of the game in what works in practicality. I mean no disrespect to the drs. and sleep techs--I know they are very knowledgeable in data taking and reading, etc., but they sometimes fall short in the troubleshooting area.

All in Knots

I used a simple old cotton stretchy headband/hairband to apply a small amount of pressure to keep the nasal cushion in place. The numbers are quite high on the first night where I used the headband on the lower portion of the nasal piece. I think it applied too much pressure and didn't let the air flow freely. The second night the numbers are better (4.3 versus 5.9 without the headband), but still not as good as the CL2 AHI 1.3 and 0.0 at 90%!

So, I will be going forward with the CL2 as my main mask. I'll trade out with the headrest for the CL2 when I get the occasional rash from the CL2 headpiece. Without data, I would have never known which one was working best for me. I would have gone completely from a comfort standpoint.

First night: Headband over the lower nasal cushion part of the nasal piece.


Second night: Headband over the top of the nasal piece going across my eyes (thought I would get the added benefit of keeping out the light).

bdp522 wrote:Have you tried the head gear from the comfortlite (original)?

https://www.cpap.com/viewImage.php?PNum ... _RGBLo.jpg


I find it to be more comfortable than the CL2 headgear, but it works just as well for me.

Brenda

I think the issue of my forehead getting a rash and my eyebrows being pushed down on would be the same in the alternate headgear shown in the link you provided. But thanks : )