sliding downhill (again) - flow limitations??

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
jnk
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Re: sliding downhill (again) - flow limitations??

Post by jnk » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:45 am

echo wrote: . . . i am not on any meds, . . .

. . . I've had complaints of Fibro, CSF, multiple environmental allergies of whatever it's called, candidiasis, bowel this-and-that, and on and on and on . . .

. . . The last doc that I had that I tried to talk sense with . . . ended up trying to push Prozac on me . . .
SSRIs, like Prozac, may be over-prescribed as a quick-fix, but low doses in combination can be very helpful to some fibromyalgia patients. My mother, in fact, found that to be so in her case.
. . . If TCAs [Tricyclic anti-depressants] are not effective at treating the symptoms of FM [fibromyalgia], doctors may prescribe another type of antidepressant known as a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI). Like TCAs, SSRIs are also prescribed for FM treatment in lower doses than those used to treat depression. SSRIs may improve fatigue, depressive symptoms, and pain by increasing the amount of serotonin in the brain. SSRIs may also increase energy, which can be a problem in FM patients who usually have trouble sleeping. . . . Combination therapy with more than one type of antidepressant has been shown to be more effective in reducing FM symptoms than using either a TCA or an SSRI alone. As a result, for treating FM, an SSRI is almost always given in combination with a TCA. Currently being researched for FM are antidepressant drugs that increase both serotonin and norepinephrine. Called mixed reuptake inhibitors, these drugs are also believed to be effective in the treatment of FM symptoms. One mixed reuptake inhibitor, duloxetine (Cymbalta), already FDA-approved for depression, has been shown to be effective in the treatment of FM pain symptoms. Venlafaxine (Effexor), another mixed reuptake inhibitor, is also thought to effective but more studies are needed to prove its effectiveness.

-- http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/HC/Treatme ... 70,00.html


Please ignore this post if it is irritating. Not recommending anything. Only trying to be helpful.

jeff

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echo
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Re: sliding downhill (again) - flow limitations??

Post by echo » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:06 am

hi Jeff- thanks for the info. It is not irritating to hear people's opinions, sorry if I came off sounding like a jerk the other day. I'm just a bit tired and exhausted and tired of feeling like i'm falling apart

I've used Zyban twice and both times it made me screwy in the head, so I stopped. I guess it is not an SSRI anyway.

I wouldn't mind so much to take a pill like that if there was a decent diagnosis of whatever XYZ disease, but not because they don't feel like finding the root cuase of the problem and just think ' it's all in my head'.

BTW, I've been sleeping at a fixed pressure of 12cm for the last three nights - I feel much better than before. AHI is still low, Central A's are still nearly non-existent (go figure!!), but on the third night the flow limitations were very high in the morning hours but I don't feel too bad (I slept something like 12 hours!).

If I can get my hands on that pulse-ox and the PSG, then hopefully I'll have more to go on.

Then maybe my sense of humor will come back too, and I can think of something witty to say to Snoredog about the tongue tether?!!
PR System One APAP, 10cm
Activa nasal mask + mouth taping w/ 3M micropore tape + Pap-cap + PADACHEEK + Pur-sleep
Hosehead since 31 July 2007, yippie!

jnk
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: sliding downhill (again) - flow limitations??

Post by jnk » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:35 pm

echo wrote: . . . sorry if I came off sounding like a jerk the other day. I'm just a bit tired and exhausted and tired of feeling like i'm falling apart
Well, I haven't heard you sound like a jerk, myself. Maybe I'm not listening closely enough? Seriously, if you can't vent here, where can you vent, right? I hear some angst, yeah. But it's your health, after all. Being fired up about that is a good thing, I'd say. Your doing what you can and trying things is the best way not to fall apart in all the ways that matter most.
echo wrote: . . . I wouldn't mind so much to take a pill like that if there was a decent diagnosis of whatever XYZ disease, but not because they don't feel like finding the root cuase of the problem and just think ' it's all in my head'.
I hear you. But a diagnosis is just a name. Maybe it helps to put a name to things when we can. But in the grand scheme of things, names don't matter all that much. And just because a doc prescribes a drug that may affect your head, that doesn't mean the problem is 'all in your head' in the idiomatic sense. Most diseases are at least partially in our heads literally speaking--the brain is a vital organ that controls a lot and is affected by a lot.

Many medically named problems have normal manifestions in certain people and not-so-common manifestations in others. Your body is unique, so your symptoms may not be falling neatly into any set of symptoms that can be wrapped up in a package and tied into a pretty bow. So a doc who is trying to help may make some stabs in the dark. And if some so-called psych meds help with chronic pain or chronic fatigue, it may be worth it to dabble in that without worrying about any stigma. It is more important that you feel better. Sometimes being on the meds long enough to give the body a break so it can heal can work in the long run. If you respond to a certain med, that may be part of the diagnostic process, in a way. So you may not want to turn down help just becuase you can't be handed a diagnosis. Only my opinion. And, I admit, not a popular one.

Most docs realize that the best they can do is merely use a few tools to help the body do its own thing to get better. They collect a list of symptoms, make a hunch, and then throw some chemicals at the problem to see if anything gets better or worse. It isn't a perfect system by any means, but it occasionally helps people. So, let's say, theoretically speaking, in your case, that a doctor has no idea what the real problem is but still prescribes a med he thinks will land somewhere in the ballpark of helping you feel better. That's still practicing medicine about as good as it gets these days for many complaints. It isn't the doc's fault that scientific understanding is so lacking. At least he isn't rubbing cow dung on you while doing some blood-letting with a holy bone in one hand and a pendulum in the other. (No offense to any witch-doctors in the house )

But in my opinion, the most important thing for any woman experiencing symptoms of chronic pain or chronic fatigue to do is to find a doctor who can correctly hear how a woman expresses her symptoms, a doctor who isn't dismissive of symptoms from females. That doc may be a male or a female. But in my opinion, it is all too common for doctors, even female doctors, perhaps unwittingly, to fail to take women with those symptoms seriously. You have to do your best to judge whether your doctor is taking you seriously.
echo wrote: . . . maybe my sense of humor will come back too, and I can think of something witty to say to Snoredog about the tongue tether?!!
Sounds to me like the sense of humor is still there, even if it is buried under a rough time at the moment.

Please excuse me if I come off preachy with my wacky opinions above. I assume it must be discouraging to feel like you are trying every medical approach known to humankind one at a time, but I believe that as long as you haven't thrown in the towel on the process, chances are you or a doctor will stumble on something that will help more than hurt.

Either that, or Snoredog will divine the magic pressure number that will reinflate your spirit.

Fight hard, echo.

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echo
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Re: sliding downhill (again) - flow limitations??

Post by echo » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:04 pm

heee heee heee jeff your posts ALWAYS put a smile on my face
By the way you must have missed my OTHER rant on doctors here: viewtopic/t35715/The-heck-with-ethics-g ... ml#p307444

Boy am i all riled up about this or what?

I totally agree with you .. what made me mad about that particular doc, however, was that after a blood test, a couple of values came below or above "average", plus all my list of symptoms, and he LITERALLY said "These can point to MANY problems, where do we even begin to find out what's wrong with you?" blah blah blah and then 5 minutes later it was "here have prozac". I definintely complained about the sleep problems (being tired, sleeping in all the time, not waking up refreshed, insomnia, headaches), and NOT ONE DOCTOR IN 15 YEARS EVER EVER thought to send me for a PSG. THAT'S what makes me mad. /end rant

Sooo anyhoooo, yeah, maybe Snoredog should have a night-job as a "pressure divinor"

He DID suggest 12 the other day, and i DID try 12, and my spirits HAVE inflated slightly.

Oh , while I'm ranting and *someone* is listening (poor you) .....
What's gotten me REALLY depressed lately is that I now work with a bunch of really clever people. I used to be clever, back in the day (i talk like i'm over the hill) but lately - well more than just lately but anyway - my thinking is so clouded in fog, and i'm not as sharp as i used to be, and I feel like a constant failure at work. My boss sometimes says "Here's my proposal but let's hear yours first" and then I present it, then he presents his, and (he's one year younger than me) then I feel like such a num-nut because my idea was pretty much crap compared to his. It was better a few years ago when I working with a bunch of idiots, then *I* looked really smart . Anyway my self confidence is getting beat up, or rather, I'm letting myself feel like a loser just because my head isn't clear. Blah. Like everyone else here, I know.
Thanks for letting me rant!!
PR System One APAP, 10cm
Activa nasal mask + mouth taping w/ 3M micropore tape + Pap-cap + PADACHEEK + Pur-sleep
Hosehead since 31 July 2007, yippie!

jnk
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Re: sliding downhill (again) - flow limitations??

Post by jnk » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:19 pm

I did read the other post, and enjoyed it. I like your "rants." My heart goes out to you. But I think a lot of people benefit from the way you express things.

I too am surrounded by very intelligent quick-thinkers where I work. It is never fun feeling like the dumbest guy in the room. But I often think of the line in the movie Harvey:
"Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, 'In this world, Elwood, you must be' - she always called me Elwood - 'In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

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echo
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Re: sliding downhill (again) - flow limitations??

Post by echo » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:27 pm

jnk wrote:I did read the other post, and enjoyed it. I like your "rants." My heart goes out to you. But I think a lot of people benefit from the way you express things.
Wow, thank you jnk. I always felt like I was complaining, but if others can find wisdom in those words, well then that is wonderful!
jnk wrote:I too am surrounded by very intelligent quick-thinkers where I work. It is never fun feeling like the dumbest guy in the room. But I often think of the line in the movie Harvey:
"Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, 'In this world, Elwood, you must be' - she always called me Elwood - 'In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."
I've never seen it I will put it on my list

By the way, you are right about finding a good doc. I'm just not sure how. I thought the one I had now was pretty good , until she told me it was normal to be tired at night. Hellooooo I'm tired during the DAY. This is turning into the Odyssey of the Doctor, to quote another fave forum pal

And thank you for your support {{{hugs}}}
PR System One APAP, 10cm
Activa nasal mask + mouth taping w/ 3M micropore tape + Pap-cap + PADACHEEK + Pur-sleep
Hosehead since 31 July 2007, yippie!

jnk
Posts: 5784
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: sliding downhill (again) - flow limitations??

Post by jnk » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:39 pm

Great movie. Jimmie Stewart as an eccentric. Six-foot white rabbit. Doesn't get any better than that for me.

Hugs back!