farewell

I have been using cpap machine for five years. However, recently I opted for Bipap Auto and feel more comfortable with it. MY AHI though on both the machines is 0.7. I was using a pressure of 10 on cpap and bipap autosettings are as follows:

EPAP= 9
IPAP = 20
Maximum pressure support 8
Relief= Biflex.

One of my friends told me just today, that using bipap auto may weaken my lungs, as bipap auto is essentially meant for apnea patients we cannot partially or fully breathe on their own and that the natural lung power to inhale or exhale will then adjust itself to the bipap auto machine. I do not have any lung disease or OPD (provided the word is correct) or any similar adverse condition.

I want valuable advice from very learned members of this forum, whether I could continue with bipap auto because i feel it is more natural breathing to me or revert to cpap, should bipap auto make my lungs addicted to bipap. I certainly want to avoid any addiction, so long as my lungs are otherwise healthy. Urgent advice is requested.

Javaid.

birdwood wrote:I have been using cpap machine for five years. However, recently I opted for Bipap Auto and feel more comfortable with it. MY AHI though on both the machines is 0.7. I was using a pressure of 10 on cpap and bipap autosettings are as follows:

EPAP= 9
IPAP = 20
Maximum pressure support 8
Relief= Biflex.

One of my friends told me just today, that using bipap auto may weaken my lungs, as bipap auto is essentially meant for apnea patients we cannot partially or fully breathe on their own and that the natural lung power to inhale or exhale will then adjust itself to the bipap auto machine. I do not have any lung disease or OPD (provided the word is correct) or any similar adverse condition.

I want valuable advice from very learned members of this forum, whether I could continue with bipap auto because i feel it is more natural breathing to me or revert to cpap, should bipap auto make my lungs addicted to bipap. I certainly want to avoid any addiction, so long as my lungs are otherwise healthy. Urgent advice is requested.

Javaid.

I hope you don't believe EVERYTHING this "friend" tells you.
(that person has no idea of what they're talking about)
In the case of OSA (Obstructive Sleep Apnea), these machines are designed to provide enough pressure to keep your airway open......NOT to inflate your lungs......your body will do that.

Den

Wulfman, thank you for your prompt reply. More specifically, my question was whether Biap Auto can make a person addicted to bipap mode, when cpap could also do the same job, so far as keeping the airway opened is concerned. Could you dilate on this aspect please.

birdwood wrote:One of my friends told me just today, that using bipap auto may weaken my lungs, as bipap auto is essentially meant for apnea patients we cannot partially or fully breathe on their own and that the natural lung power to inhale or exhale will then adjust itself to the bipap auto machine.

Your friend almost seems to hint that the BiPAP auto is intended for something other than ordinary obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). If it's ordinary OSA that you have, then the BiPAP Auto is targeted for you:

The manufacturer of the BiPAP Auto wrote:Respironics’ BiPAP® Auto with Bi-Flex® is the first auto-adjusting bi-level positive airway pressure system for adults with obstructive sleep apnea (OSA).

Your friend means well, but doesn't know what they're talking about IMO. Again, if it's ordinary obstructive apnea that you have, then the BiPAP Auto is targeted for you.

See for yourself: http://bipapauto.respironics.com/

birdwood wrote:Wulfman, thank you for your prompt reply. More specifically, my question was whether Biap Auto can make a person addicted to bipap mode, when cpap could also do the same job, so far as keeping the airway opened is concerned. Could you dilate on this aspect please.

I have been using cpap machine for five years. However, recently I opted for Bipap Auto and feel more comfortable with it

If you're feeling more comfortable, the bi-level is doing something the cpap can not do for you.

It does seem like you friend is does not really know the subject.

And, should you feel worse when if you ever go back to cpap, remind yourself of how it feels when you have to walk in unfitting shoes.

O.

birdwood wrote:Wulfman, thank you for your prompt reply. More specifically, my question was whether Biap Auto can make a person addicted to bipap mode, when cpap could also do the same job, so far as keeping the airway opened is concerned. Could you dilate on this aspect please.

I think the others have probably explained it better than I could have......but as far as "addicted" goes.....I'd say "No" (in the physical sense).....but, then breathing well at night is kind of hard to give up.....to go back to having apneas and the other bad things we experienced before starting therapy.....so, maybe it would be a "Yes" in the psychological sense (with regard to this therapy in general).
I've never tried Bi-PAP (as I'd have to have a specific prescription to get one) and since I'm doing very well with just plain, straight-pressure CPAP, I have no desire to pay that much more for a machine just to find out.

Den

One other thought......
Almost any Bi-PAP machine can be configured to provide straight-pressure CPAP therapy if you decide you want to switch your Bi-PAP to single-pressure mode to find out. Just set the IPAP and EPAP pressures to the same setting.

Den

Thank you Wulfman and Ojiz. And thank you SWS for finding time to share your great mind with me. I think I have not been able to explain my point of view correctly. I am suffering from obstructive apneas and CPAP was doing the job perfectly for me and I opted to Bipap Auto simply to get a little more natural breathing for me for which I felt rested. The point of view of my friend was that by getting that comfort on Bipap my lungs will become dependent on Bipap and get addicted to Bipap, instead of being strong enough to meet the exhalation and inhlation pressure set at 10. So, the question is will that reduce the tolerance powers of the lungs physiologcally, to a lesser pressure.

In simpler terms, for instance, you are using Good Knight 420E,which must be doing a fine job for you. Now, if cost is not the consideration (Bipap Auto costs almost double than ordinary CPAP), can a patient sufferings from obstructive apneas opt for bIpap autos, just to get a more natural breathing. But this transition from cpap to bipap auto should not mean,that the physiological power of the body to breathe in and breathe out should be weakned by making it dependent on the bipap mode. The pressure requirement is just about 10 on cpap and say 7-10 on bipap.

So, is cpap and bipap interchangeable machines for any patient suffering from obstructive apnea. Has bipap auto machine any adverse consequences for a normal patient who is also all right on cpap. I hope, that I have made myself somewhat clear. Your guidance will be greatly appreciated.

Most people who don't have OSA don't have to breathe out against pressurized air coming in at them.

If you want to to have healthy lungs and chest muscles - do aerobic training.

Bi-pap is necessary when higher inhale pressure is needed - there is no need to force people to exhale against the pressure they need only for inhaling.

Bi-levels used to be exorbitantly exepensive, and were kept for cases were very high IPAPs were necessary. I see no reason not to use a bi-level machine if it feels more natural and comfortable.

By the way, trying to breathe out agains obstructions probably also taxes people's lungs and chest muscles (and heart) but there's nothing healthy about it.

O.

I to am addicted to breathing O2, what a cross to bear. If anything breathing against the pressure makes the lungs stronger, the O2 doesn't hurt in building up the body. I do agree for the most part, at your low pressure the Auto Bipap, is costly overkill, unless you have other problem that require it.

Your Friend, doesn't know what he's talking about, unless he's a doctor, and if he is a doctor, your friend. "the doctor", doesn't know what he's talking about. I test twice yearly for lung volume and force (Max) every 6 months the readings have become higher. (A good thing) The downside, someday I may have to buy bigger shirts.

If your frend is that far off on advice, I'd get a big can, to put his in, and dump it frequently. Jim

Thanks for your reply Goofproof. I did not mind the cost of auto bipap even my pressure requiremnts are low i.e. about 10 cms both for inhalation and exhalation. Yet, I felt a bit more comfortable with bipap auto as it was more natural breathing. The only point is whether using a pressure of 7 for epap and 11 for ipap can hurt me in any way.

In the light of the above discussions, can one conclude, that bipap auto will not in any way have any adverse effect on lungs or heart whilst being used for OSA patients. It is simply not being prescribed for obstructive apnea patients for it is more expensive than ordinary cpap machine. However, if any patient feels that he is prepared to incur that extra cost for more natural breathing the bipap auto provides, than he could do so, without any adverse consequences. Is that conclusion right?

birdwood wrote:In the light of the above discussions, can one conclude, that bipap auto will not in any way have any adverse effect on lungs or heart whilst being used for OSA patients.

Correct.

birdwood wrote:It is simply not being prescribed for obstructive apnea patients for it is more expensive than ordinary cpap machine.

Correct.

birdwood wrote:However, if any patient feels that he is prepared to incur that extra cost for more natural breathing the bipap auto provides, than he could do so, without any adverse consequences.

Correct.

birdwood wrote:One of my friends told me just today, that using bipap auto may weaken my lungs

As the others have explained, your friend is wrong.

At work, we used to use 55 gallon trash bags as rain suits, (we were a crude group), after XPAP I don't know if I could it in one! Jim

Back when Bilevels were very expensive compared to a cpap machine, they were treated with great reverence & regarded as only suitable for seriously ill people who had respiratory complications or respiratory failure.

Med insurance companies fostered this attitude as they didn't want to have to fund more expensive machines if they could avoid it (fair enough).

But today they are marginally dearer than cpaps and many insurance companies will cover them. Also the respiratory profession feels more comfortable with them based on the greater feedback now available from popular use.

Your friend may mean well but the reality is different as well covered above.

DSM