Battery Back-Up in Case of Power Outage

Sorry... this is a repost under my "registered name" (powerprotectioncam). I tried using "powerprotectionpartners" (which is the name of the company I work for), but it said it was too long. Here is my post again. Hopefully this will reach some new readers and they will reply to my "registered name" this time around. Thanks for reading:

Hello,

My father has Sleep Apnea, and noticed that I was experiencing the same symptoms he had while we were on a family vacation in 2006. I was diagnosed with Sleep Apnea in June of 2006 and just logged over 7,000 hours on my RemStar Plus C-Pap machine.

One afternoon, while visiting my family, my father told me that the power had gone out in the middle of the night, and that he woke up gasping for air (as his C-Pap machine was not working, due to the lack of power). After hearing this and thinking about my poor dad gasping for air in the middle of the night, I decided that I was going to do some research and get him and myself a battery back-up unit that could provide us a undisturbed nights rest, once (not if) this happens again.

I work at a UPS reconditioning center, so finding a unit was easy as can be. I got a battery back-up unit for my dad and no kidding, three nights later, the power went out again. The unit started beaping (letting him know that the power was out, which the unit is suppose to do) and he told me that he appreciated the thought, but the beeping woke him up anyway. Well, I knew how to bypass the speaker (beaping) and gave it back to my dad once it was bypassed. I did the same to my UPS, and have been amazed at how easy it is to sleep thru a power outage now. No one should have to wake up, gasping for air... that's what got us to get these machines in the first place, you know?

I have read MANY blogs about people getting these outragiously expensive systems that will give them 10+ hours of battery "uptime" in case of a power outage. Two questions:
1) Who sleeps for 10 hours these days?
2) When does the power go out for 10 hours straight (unless some sort of major disaster happens)?? Usually power outages last minutes, not hours

If you are wanting to know more about these battery back-up systems, please feel free to call me. I can disable the alarm (the beeping) so you can sleep thru the night... you can even plug your alarm clock and nightlight into the UPS as well, enabling you to make sure you are up for work on time and have light, in case it's too dark to see.

My name is Cameron Woolf and I can be reached at (972) 635-2999 x110. I guarantee that I can provide you a solution for MUCH less than anyone else... being a fellow C-Pap user, I understand how impossible it is to sleep with out my C-Pap.

Cameron......

Thanks for your post....we all appreciate your efforts.

i have a question....that may be important ....as it applies to what you are trying to do.

Over the years, I have tried to replace batteries in APC products....and found that I couldn't make the systems work indefinately...by just replacing batteries as needed. It was almost as if the APC units had a built-in "expiration" system that made them worthless after a few years.

Based on your experience, can you tell me if I was right or wrong? And if I'm right, is there any way to change a component that will defeat the "must-throw-away" system that I suspect is built into the APC product?

By the way, I much prefer the APC product.....especially after having used a competative product (that I found to be junk).

Thanks again for your input.

Gerald

powerprotectioncam wrote:Two questions:
1) Who sleeps for 10 hours these days?

8-9-10 hours, it doesn't matter what the exact number is but the need is to fully cover a full night of sleeping, and that will vary between indiviudals.

powerprotectioncam wrote:2) When does the power go out for 10 hours straight (unless some sort of major disaster happens)??

Whether you like it or not, the reality is that anywhere in the "Western" world it is quite possible for a domestic consumer to be without power for a day or two for a variety of reasons, even if you have not had that experience yourself.

I live in the middle suburbs of a "world" city with good infrastructure, but none the less suffered from a very local freak-weather event that hit just a few high ground suburbs in a heavily wooded area. We went for a few days without power due to the sheer number of trees that had fallen across power lines and blocked streets. Even with power and emergency response crews from all over the State working on the problem, it just took a while to get our power back on.

There are plenty of other users here who have told their own stories of power outages that have lasted longer than a night.

Cheers,

Bill

BillBolton,

Thanks for your reply. You are absolutely correct when saying "the reality is that anywhere in the "Western" world it is quite possible for a domestic consumer to be without power for a day or two for a variety of reasons, even if you have not had that experience yourself." Solutions are available for any amount of uptime desired, whether the desired uptime is 5 minutes or 5 days... the problem is cost. After reading about your unfortunate/rare experience, it is easy to conclude that you would have been out several hundred dollars (perhaps several thousand dollars) to get a UPS solution which would hold your CPAP machine up for a few days. I am trying to let everyone know about an AFFORDABLE solution.... somewhere around the $75-$200 range. Could instances like yours happen? Of course... probablity is slim though. If the power at my house was out for a few days, I would have to go to a hotel, as I do not sleep (or even take a quick nap) without my CPAP.

Thanks again for sharing your story Bill

Gerald,

Thanks for the reply. This is a very broad question with many possible answers. Perhaps the unit took a strong surge (lightning strike nearby)... maybe the unit has been exposed to extended brownouts and the system "gave out" over time... was the unit in an air conditioned environment?? How much load was placed on the equipment? I would love to help you solve your problem but I am going to need a few more details. Please advise and I'd be happy to help.

Thanks Gerald

I noticed the phenomenon with a number of APC units. It's like they would not function normally.....they'd trip for seemingly no reason. It's like they were designed to become unusable after a set period of time.

None of them were subjected to repeated spikes. In fact, all had ZeroSurge units upstream.....between them and wall power.

They were all used in an air conditioned environment.....no abuse.

I was just curious......and hoped that you might shed some light on what I experienced.

I have simply resigned myself to the idea that I can't change the batteries out in a used APC....and expect it to operate like a new one once I've put fresh batteries in.

Gerald

I'm interested in having this backup in place too. I already have a few UPS units at home with various things plugged into them. What kind of rating would I need in order to get 8 hours out of my cpap w/ heated humidifier running? As to disabling the beeping alarm noise ... how involved is the process? Can you give a rundown on how to go about doing that?

Thanks.

powerprotectioncam wrote:After reading about your unfortunate/rare experience,

Unfortunate yes, but not that rare in these days of increasingly extreme weather events.

powerprotectioncam wrote:I am trying to let everyone know about an AFFORDABLE solution.

Plenty of AFFORDABLE solutions have already been described here over the years.

I'm certain this has been said before... a UPS system no matter how large is not designed to provide long term power.

UPS devices are meant to provide *short-term power* until something else kicks in. What is that "something else"?

- A generator that is capable of providing long term power.

- The device is powered off in an orderly fashion. UPS systems designed for the home PC use have this in mind. They either power the device for a power outage of short duration or they provide the owner with enough time to conduct an orderly shutdown of the computer system.

It is simply not practical to expect a UPS system to power an xPAP overnight while one sleeps. What that UPS can do and will excel at is provide power for short duration power outages that are typically less than 45 to 60 minutes... 60 minutes is pushing it. The UPS automates the whole process of switching over to battery power... but the batteries built into these UPS systems do not have the ability to power devices for long term use.

What kind of backup device you need depends entirely upon the kind of power outages you experience and expect the most. In the last five years living here I have experience two power failures both lasting less than 1 hour each. Neither one would have had a major effect on xPAP use... had I been on one at the time. So, I don't have much of a need for backup power *unless* there is an unusual event that knocks the power out for hours and perhaps days. The last time that happened in this area was the ice storm of 1998.

Very well said, Paul.
Elegant in its simplicity.

A deep cycle battery and charger that will power a CPAP for at least 3 to 5 nights costs about $150 (or less). My current CPAP backup battery is a Li Ion CPAP battery that will power my CPAP for more than two nights -- and I can use it on an airplane. I also have a large deep cycle battery that should power my CPAP for about a week, but I would have to rearrange the power connections to use it. Long ago I used a UPS to back up my CPAP, but I much prefer to back up my CPAP using a battery rather than a UPS.

I have a living room full of UPS's that power my computers, networking equipment, and TiVo. I even have a CFL table lamp that is plugged into a UPS. My cordless phone and answering machine are backed up with smallish gel-cell batteries.

billbolton wrote:

powerprotectioncam wrote:After reading about your unfortunate/rare experience,

Unfortunate yes, but not that rare in these days of increasingly extreme weather events.

powerprotectioncam wrote:I am trying to let everyone know about an AFFORDABLE solution.

Plenty of AFFORDABLE solutions have already been described here over the years.

Not sure why you are being difficult Bill.... I am a CPAP user and am trying to help other CPAP users. If you don't need help, then don't comment.

Bearded_One wrote:A deep cycle battery and charger that will power a CPAP for at least 3 to 5 nights costs about $150 (or less). My current CPAP backup battery is a Li Ion CPAP battery that will power my CPAP for more than two nights -- and I can use it on an airplane. I also have a large deep cycle battery that should power my CPAP for about a week, but I would have to rearrange the power connections to use it. Long ago I used a UPS to back up my CPAP, but I much prefer to back up my CPAP using a battery rather than a UPS.

I have a living room full of UPS's that power my computers, networking equipment, and TiVo. I even have a CFL table lamp that is plugged into a UPS. My cordless phone and answering machine are backed up with smallish gel-cell batteries.

Fire hazard and a huge eye-sore!! Again, I am not trying to "power you up" all night or all week. I am trying to provide an affordable solution that will help when the power goes out briefly (less than an hour). If you want 10 days of uptime, it can be done too.... just make sure you have a bank on hand to take out a loan for all the money you'll spend. An affordable solution for short power outages is a UPS, hands down.

powerprotectioncam wrote:Not sure why you are being difficult Bill....

So, its alright for you to pose straw man questions but its not alright for anyone to respond to them in a way that doesn't support your position!

powerprotectioncam wrote:If you don't need help, then don't comment.

If you can't handle others calling things as they see them, then you shouldn't post!

My deep cell battery is no more of a fire hazard than a UPS, nor is it an eye-sore. Nobody would know that I had a deep cell battery unless I opened the door and showed it to them. My Li-Ion battery is the size of a hard back book, can be tucked anywhere, can be used on an airplane, and it will power my CPAP for more than two nights.

For outages of an hour or so, a UPS would make a very convenient backup power supply. A power outage of an hour or so is inconvenient, but losing up to an hour of sleep is not usually a particularly large problem. Outages of over an hour in duration start becoming an issue, and this is where standalone batteries are needed. People who get power outages of less than an hour, but don't get longer duration outages, would probably do well with the convenience of a UPS. People who get even occasional night time power outages of over an hour will do better with a battery. Batteries are also frequently needed by people who want to go camping; the same battery used for camping can also be used be used as a standby battery while at home.

If a UPS manufacturer wants to make UPS that is useful for use with CPAP, it will need to be rated at about 300 vA, power a CPAP for at least 20 hours, and come out of the box with the alarms disabled.