REM vs. All night AHI

I got my mom tested for sleep apnea using a Watch-PAT device this week. I was very impressed with it. Turns out that my mom she does snore almost constantly but doesn't have bad sleep apnea. Her results where an AHI of 3.0 but that number went up to 8.9 during REM. Oxygen level went to 85. I'm assuming that only the overall AHI number is important to doctors.

The test showed some interesting results. My mom complains of always waking up at about the same time during the second half of the night. On the night of the test this happened and she had to get up as she felt all panicky on awaking. The test results showed that she clearly woke up due to a respiratory event at that time.

I think that AHI is not a complete enough picture to be making decisions solely on it. I think one needs to also look at total time in apnea, maximun apnea lenght, etc.

Does anyone know treating someone with an 8.9 in REM would make sence (given that its enough to be causing awaking) even if the overall AHI is in the normal range?

I'm in a similar situation as your mom. The vast majority of sleep docs are only interested in the total AHI number. They're not interested in the quality of your sleep, O2 desats, and as long as your entering stages 1, 2, 3/4 of sleep, even if it is low or bare minimum and your AHI is not bad, they don't care.

I wouldn't worry about the AHI being low numbers, I would be worried about the O2 of 85 and waking up paniced from not breathing, that's what causes heart attacks and the damage. If using a XPAP to prevent this it would be well worth the trouble and cost of using it. It might give her extra quality years with you. Jim

Goofproof wrote:I wouldn't worry about the AHI being low numbers, I would be worried about the O2 of 85 and waking up paniced from not breathing, that's what causes heart attacks and the damage. If using a XPAP to prevent this it would be well worth the trouble and cost of using it. It might give her extra quality years with you. Jim

Yep. What he said.
Get a doctor to write an Rx.
O.

Goofproof wrote:I wouldn't worry about the AHI being low numbers, I would be worried about the O2 of 85 and waking up paniced from not breathing, that's what causes heart attacks and the damage. If using a XPAP to prevent this it would be well worth the trouble and cost of using it. It might give her extra quality years with you. Jim

My desat dipped to 84% during an overnight Oximetry with APAP. While my family doctor said that's alarming, the sleep doc wasn't concerned. It only lasted <50 seconds he said. Yet, I tell him that I am never feeling rested or refreshed. My sleep technician (DME) who's really quite knowledgeable in OSA is frustrated how they're treating me and my OSA.

Hmm wrote:

Goofproof wrote:I wouldn't worry about the AHI being low numbers, I would be worried about the O2 of 85 and waking up paniced from not breathing, that's what causes heart attacks and the damage. If using a XPAP to prevent this it would be well worth the trouble and cost of using it. It might give her extra quality years with you. Jim

My desat dipped to 84% during an overnight Oximetry with APAP. While my family doctor said that's alarming, the sleep doc wasn't concerned. It only lasted <50 seconds he said. Yet, I tell him that I am never feeling rested or refreshed. My sleep technician (DME) who's really quite knowledgeable in OSA is frustrated how they're treating me and my OSA.

That is why we get a APAP and the software to optimize our treatment, even if we don't use the APAP part. The more you can learn to peak your treatment the better life gets. Jim

To James and Jim,

Hey, help a mystified chick out. How do I figure out how long I'm in REM from Encore Pro and/or Pro Analyzer?

Or are you getting this data from PSG's?

Thanks much!!!
B.

Babette wrote:To James and Jim,

Hey, help a mystified chick out. How do I figure out how long I'm in REM from Encore Pro and/or Pro Analyzer?

Or are you getting this data from PSG's?

Thanks much!!!
B.

I don't think that kind of info is avail. from cpap software..as with psg. You're talking about sleep stage info...that kind of thing demands much more complicated equipment...although I can be wrong....someone correct me....
p,s sorry i'm not the one you are soliciting...but i couldn't help myself.

Babette wrote:How do I figure out how long I'm in REM from Encore Pro and/or Pro Analyzer?
Or are you getting this data from PSG's?

You can't get sleep stage data from CPAP. You need a full PSG or a device like the Watch-PAT.

Ah. Well that settles THAT then. Thanks!!!
B.