Swift LT pillow system leak data

Not to beat a dead horse, but when you are leaking a lot, the machine can get confused and not score your apneas and hypopneas accurately. For instance, I would almost bet that the night your leak rate was 1.1, your AHI was 17.

RiverDave wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but when you are leaking a lot, the machine can get confused and not score your apneas and hypopneas accurately. For instance, I would almost bet that the night your leak rate was 1.1, your AHI was 17.

or higher - the machines won't record events when there are big leaks - same with respironics machines - the AHI recorded is way low compared to what it really is -

Jules,
Thanks, I didn't know that (the not scoring part).

For the Respironics machines the leaks don't have to be recorded as LL - just over 75 l/min - think snoredog is the first person I saw post an actual flow rate

The software gets confused on which came first the leak or the event and says to hell with all of it and says LEAK and all it sees is leak.

A leak number of 1.1 on the Resmed sounds pretty severe as that is 66 l/min higher than the menu mask and so the flow rate is way up there.

The real test is the graph of the leak data not the LED numbers. Same for Respironics m series.

I can show you my own EP graphs where I have leak issues and yet my average and max and 90 %ile leak numbers aren't bad - in fact my average leak numbers are less than 1.2 times what it should be but the graphs are a dead give away - and I got plenty of these graphs myself lately. I don't have any LED data myself so all I have is the EP reports.

I'd be interested in seeing that.

this is last Tuesday night - got more like it -

I am running APAP 8.5 - 10 - somnoplus mask - at 8 leak chart is around 21, for 10 around 24 so my leak average is fine but

for that night, max is 55, 90 %ile is 36, average is 23 on the EP page not the detailed graphs one but you can see I got leak problems and the average leak number doesn't tell me that

What is a FFM trial? Full-Face-Mask? My DME would do the trial on that or do I go through the RT?

Well Crapola

Ignorance is just no excuse but sometimes I just wish I didn't delve into it and had remained stoopid! But now that I know there are major problems, which is why I'm still tired, I have to keep on keeping on and figure this out.

Thanks again for your help. I really do hope you realize how valuable your input is.

You need to ask the DME (RT) how to get a FFM to try - they might want to bill you for it and they might want a script from the doc saying it is medically necessary. Some DME's will let you borrow a mask, some expect you to pay for any package they open for you.

I apologize yet again

I've tried at least a dozen masks and almost all of them have been Full-Face. They also leak horribly, and ALL of them left a horrible sore on the bridge of my nose. I tried bandages, tape, gauze, tightning, loosening, etc. etc. but none of them worked. Unfortunately I did not write down all the ones that I have tried, but the ones I can remember are Hybrid, Fisher Pak Flex Fit 407, and Mirage Quattro. The ones that I liked I needed an xtra small size and so far only the Quattro has come in xtra small and it leaks horribly and also leaves a sore.

I haven't paid for one mask yet! My RT said that she would work with me until I found 'THE ONE' and so far I haven't found it, and the DME hasn't charged me a dime for all the ones I've tried, and 'most' of them have been brand new. I feel very fortunate that I haven't had to pay out-of-pocket for these suckers but am really hoping that I can find one that works for me.

Thanks again!

Abbi-Normal wrote:Sorry

I hate being such a pain in the a** but I really DO appreciate your help.

Leak rates are between .2 and 1.1 with the average being .4 and .5

My lowest AHI has been 3.3 and the highest was 17.5, but it's usually around 4.6

The lowest AI was .2 and the highest was 11.7, but it's usually around 1.8

The lowest HI has been 2.7 and the highest was 9.2 and its typically oh geez, its all over the place actually. The last 9 days its been 3.6; 3.2; 4.2; 2.8; 3.5; 2.7; 9.2; 5.8, and; 4.6

I really don't understand what all that means except that I am not feeling as rested as I think I should or as much as I would like to be.

Maybe I am just ABNORMAL

Hi,
I do not know your machine, and how exactly it measures/reports the leaks. But the intended leak for your mask Swift LT at some pressures are given below.
Pressure: Leak
8cm: 28 lpm
12cm: 33 lpm
16cm: 38 lpm
Somebody else here will translate your machine's reading and compare them with the intended leak.
Sometimes it does take a while to get the leaks brought under control; all our conditions are somewhat different from each others, and so you would get different advice, and sometimes conflicting advice.

I have started using your mask, Swift LT, about a week ago. It seems to be able to give relatively low leak, but I use low pressure 6cm. It is very easy to over tighten the straps, so check that. For some people like me, the back strap does slip up and loosen the mask. Does that happen to you? I do not use any lubricant gels with this mask, and I have heard at least one comment that lubricant gels may increase leaks. It does produce condensation for me, especially at my low pressure, even with HH setting at 1. This sometimes would wake me up and create leaks too. Do you have problems with condensation?

It looks like you do have mouth breathing. I had not known this during the many weeks when I started using cpap. To control mouth breathing I use regular masking tape. Just take it easy, you would be able to get the leaks controlled eventually. Relax and have a good night's sleep.

As for acceptable AHI, doctors say if the average AHI (that is, AI + HI) is less than about 5, then you are doing fine. If a person with mild apnea has AHI below 5, they do not even treat it at all with cpap.

Feel free to keep asking for more help whenever you have questions.

there are problems finding small masks - have you asked about a children's mask? - there are many others on the forum with this same problem - you might post a new thread saying you need to find an extra small mask and get ideas

you need to also try to work around the nose sore problem - know it is a PITA - got one there myself right now - but you can pad the mask some with mole skin or mole foam, or put a bandaid on the nose (mine was vertical last night) to protect the skin some - my spouse commented on my red mark yesterday from the night before

you need to also start devoting a few pages in a notebook on what masks you try and how you feel about them - give some criteria and rate each mask A to F on each of the criteria - like noise, nose pressure / sores, leaks, overall comfort - there might not be a perfect one, just the best possible and that mask might have a C average grade- give some verbal feedback too on these pages

YOu could also try the Swift with different pillow sizes. Ican wear any of the 3 sizes and the leaks are low but maybe you should try a different size and see if that improves the leak.

Good Morning!

To address some of your questions here goes:

I do not get condensation
I wear the mask quite loose as I had been over tighning
I used band-aids, gauze, and pads to protect the bridge of my nose when using a FF
I have tried every size of nasal pillow except the large

I WISH I had kept a notebook of which masks I have tried. I also wish I had known how to read the machine and keep track of my numbers back in February when I started this journey. Since Faunk had NO problems with his mask I assumed that it would be a piece of cake for me also. We all know what 'assume' means But I have learned and I am keeping a notebook and with the continued support, advice and encouragement from all of you I'm sure its going to be a.o.k.

Last night I taped my mouth shut. I really didn't like the feeling, but went to sleep and the tape stayed on all night and I didn't wake up to adjust the pillows, but, the leak reading this morning was .46 so I have no clue what is happening and what is leaking. Maybe its leaking out my ears

Abbi-Normal wrote:Good Morning!

To address some of your questions here goes:

I do not get condensation
I wear the mask quite loose as I had been over tighning
I used band-aids, gauze, and pads to protect the bridge of my nose when using a FF
I have tried every size of nasal pillow except the large

I WISH I had kept a notebook of which masks I have tried. I also wish I had known how to read the machine and keep track of my numbers back in February when I started this journey. Since Faunk had NO problems with his mask I assumed that it would be a piece of cake for me also. We all know what 'assume' means But I have learned and I am keeping a notebook and with the continued support, advice and encouragement from all of you I'm sure its going to be a.o.k.

Last night I taped my mouth shut. I really didn't like the feeling, but went to sleep and the tape stayed on all night and I didn't wake up to adjust the pillows, but, the leak reading this morning was .46 so I have no clue what is happening and what is leaking. Maybe its leaking out my ears

TO ALL OUR MEMBERS TRYING TO HELP Abbi-Normal: Please, let us just concentrate on her machine and her numbers only. Even after going thru most of the posts in this thread this morning over again, I am not sure about some of the answers/help we are giving this new member. One of the reason for this is that we were helping another person, and Abbi-Normal started a question in the middle of the thread, rightfully so, because there was clarifications needed on the previous posts. I do not think it would of much help for her at this stage to know stage how her leak rate compares with leak rates reported by other machines than her own.

1. From a previous post in this thread, I take it that Abbi's machine's leak report already subtracts the leak value from the table entry inside the machine.

2. I am sorry for this, but I should have asked this before. If you have already given this, I am missing it even after re reading. Abbi-Normal, what is the type of mask you have entered (set in the machine) as your mask? The machine calculates the leak it reports based on the intended leak of that mask you entered. Since Swift LT is a new mask, I am pretty sure it is not in your machine's tables. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION.

3. Abbi-Normal, I am assuming you used your new lower perssure of 10 last night?

After I hear from you, even though I do not know/use your machine, I would try to give you how the leak you had last night might be with respect to normal values. Somebody else here would correct me if I am wrong.

4. Abbi-Normal, please note that the average leak is only one guideline. It is possible, even with an acceptable average leak, it might be going up and down during the night, which could really cause high AHI numbers. Does your software give you a chart of the leak over the night time? Does it vary a lot?

feeling_better wrote:
TO ALL OUR MEMBERS TRYING TO HELP Abbi-Normal: Please, let us just concentrate on her machine and her numbers only. Even after going thru most of the posts in this thread this morning over again, I am not sure about some of the answers/help we are giving this new member. One of the reason for this is that we were helping another person, and Abbi-Normal started a question in the middle of the thread, rightfully so, because there was clarifications needed on the previous posts. I do not think it would of much help for her at this stage to know stage how her leak rate compares with leak rates reported by other machines than her own.

1. From a previous post in this thread, I take it that Abbi's machine's leak report already subtracts the leak value from the table entry inside the machine.

2. I am sorry for this, but I should have asked this before. If you have already given this, I am missing it even after re reading. Abbi-Normal, what is the type of mask you have entered (set in the machine) as your mask? The machine calculates the leak it reports based on the intended leak of that mask you entered. Since Swift LT is a new mask, I am pretty sure it is not in your machine's tables. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION.

3. Abbi-Normal, I am assuming you used your new lower perssure of 10 last night?

After I hear from you, even though I do not know/use your machine, I would try to give you how the leak you had last night might be with respect to normal values. Somebody else here would correct me if I am wrong.

4. Abbi-Normal, please note that the average leak is only one guideline. It is possible, even with an acceptable average leak, it might be going up and down during the night, which could really cause high AHI numbers. Does your software give you a chart of the leak over the night time? Does it vary a lot?

Perhaps if you can't follow the thread, you can bow out and let those of us who call follow it post.

Abbi doesn't have software.

If her average leak rate is still .46 (RiverDave indicated this was a 95 %ile not average yesterday), then it doesn't matter what the mask in the menu is, the leak (if that is the real average) is still excessive cause it would then be 27 more than a number between say 24 and 36 for the possible mask options at a pressure of 10. That is still rather high imho, but then "my math sucks". Maybe your math skills are better than mine.