Brain structural changes in obstructive sleep apnea.

jskinner · Post by **jskinner** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:05 pm

Snoredog wrote:I take an additional 500mg of niacin. Niacin attacks that Atherosclerosis better than anything and Niacin is OTC and cheap. But if you have insurance you can ask your doctor about Niaspan (http://www.niaspan.com) it is prescription only same strength but it is time-released coated so it doesn't cause as much flushing, but once you get used to the flushing and I take it at bed time along with the aspirin so by the time it dissolves I'm asleep before the flushing ever takes place.

My understanding is that you can take Niacinamide instead of strait Niacin and avoid the flush?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:40 pm

Well, if its the same Slinky as on another forum, I know her age. She's just a kid, compared to me.
I'm over the hill,
Jay

roster · Post by **roster** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:50 am

jskinner wrote:
Snoredog wrote:I take an additional 500mg of niacin. Niacin attacks that Atherosclerosis better than anything and Niacin is OTC and cheap. But if you have insurance you can ask your doctor about Niaspan (http://www.niaspan.com) it is prescription only same strength but it is time-released coated so it doesn't cause as much flushing, but once you get used to the flushing and I take it at bed time along with the aspirin so by the time it dissolves I'm asleep before the flushing ever takes place.
My understanding is that you can take Niacinamide instead of strait Niacin and avoid the flush?

I asked a pharmacist about niacinamide. He said it is nearly worthless because it is not well absorbed by your body. The reason it doesn't cause flushing is because it is not absorbed. There are some comments about the lack of effectiveness of niacinamide here: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/niacin ... ent-niacin

I noticed WalMart has an OTC time-release niacin quite cheap.

marshaeb · Post by **marshaeb** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:59 am

jskinner wrote:CONCLUSIONS: White matter is extensively affected in OSA patients; the alterations include axons linking major structures within the limbic system, pons, frontal, temporal and parietal cortices, and projections to and from the cerebellum.

I really like hanging out with you smart people. (I mean it -- not being a smartmouth.) Even if 90% of it goes over my head, I've still learned something. Life is good!!

So we have these extensive alterations to our brains, which, as we've learned from Snoredog, is a bad thingy (sounds like an EXTREMELY BAD, JUST ABOUT IMPOSSIBLE TO IMAGINE, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE kind of bad thingy). Do you know if the alterations are reversible once we stop the oxygen deprivation? OR We know we only use a small percentage of our brains, and I've read amazing descriptions of how a healthy area of a person's brain has taken over work that no longer can be performed by a damaged area of his/her brain. Do you know if this sort of thing might happen?

Snoredog wrote:....she didn't have all her ducks in a row but boy could she quack.

Snoredog, YOU quack me up!!!

jnk, that's a song title if I ever heard one (hint)

Snoredog wrote:Treat your body like a plant, a plant with cells, keep it watered, keep it supplied with oxygen and nutrients.

Wow. I just had an epiphany. The bipolar-but-refuses-to-treat-it witch at work who decided about 15 years ago that piling excrement on me whenever she possibly can really LIKES me, doesn't she? She's just helping to supply me with nutrients. Wow. Didn't I just say that life is good? Wow.

As to the rest, once again, Snoredog, you've explained this in a way that got through to my Cheese Whiz brain. And THAT, my friends, is truly a miracle. Thank you so much.

Marsha

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:12 am

Don't forget the studies in Australia where they are trying to prove snoring slows the blood flow through the Carotid Artery. I was on Plavix for a month after my
heart implant in June 2007, then 326mg aspirin. Then the Cardiologist did a follow up Echocardiagram with agitated saline to check that the hole was still plugged (in my heart) and he discovered I was not bleeding when they pulled the needle out (blood tests). He put me back on Plavix and I have been there for
several months. Even Plavix does not help me to bleed if I cut myself accidentally. My Systolic/Dystolic/BP is fine, so he left it alone for now.

I sure believe in blood thinners. My uncle lived to within 2 months of 100 years old. Three open heart surgeries helped, but he had a blood vessel around the area of his eyes plug up for a few minutes and he lost the vision in that eye. THAT got my attention.

Strokes scare me. If I die, fine. I don't want to be a burden on my family if I have a severe stroke.

Brain Lesions .... I was in the MRI tube for about an hour and fifteen minutes early this year. They were looking for brain lesions to explain some of my medical problems, but they did not find any. I am not sure if that is good news or not. I just wish they could find out what is wrong with me. It appears another long trip to the National Jewish Hospital may be in order.

roster · Post by **roster** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:24 pm

marshaeb wrote: ........Do you know if the alterations are reversible once we stop the oxygen deprivation? OR We know we only use a small percentage of our brains, and I've read amazing descriptions of how a healthy area of a person's brain has taken over work that no longer can be performed by a damaged area of his/her brain. Do you know if this sort of thing might happen?

........

1. The scarring in the brain is not reversible.
2. The brain can find ways to partially compensate for some of the damage.
3. We will never reach our previous potential.

Do the best with what we have left.

marshaeb · Post by **marshaeb** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:37 pm

rooster wrote:
marshaeb wrote: ........Do you know if the alterations are reversible once we stop the oxygen deprivation? OR We know we only use a small percentage of our brains, and I've read amazing descriptions of how a healthy area of a person's brain has taken over work that no longer can be performed by a damaged area of his/her brain. Do you know if this sort of thing might happen?

........
1. The scarring in the brain is not reversible.
2. The brain can find ways to partially compensate for some of the damage.
3. We will never reach our previous potential.

Do the best with what we have left.

I can live with that. (Good thing, eh?) Knowing is better than wondering.
What Abe said (see below).

Marsha

pianomagoo · Post by **pianomagoo** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:55 pm

Snoredog,

That's a lot of good information and good tips.

Thanks,

Anne

deerslayer · Post by **deerslayer** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:17 pm

jskinner wrote:
Snoredog wrote:I take an additional 500mg of niacin. Niacin attacks that Atherosclerosis better than anything and Niacin is OTC and cheap. But if you have insurance you can ask your doctor about Niaspan (http://www.niaspan.com) it is prescription only same strength but it is time-released coated so it doesn't cause as much flushing, but once you get used to the flushing and I take it at bed time along with the aspirin so by the time it dissolves I'm asleep before the flushing ever takes place.
My understanding is that you can take Niacinamide instead of strait Niacin and avoid the flush?

AHH SOOo, very interesting! another Epiphany !! i received mondays lab results in mail today from my primary(Great Gal)..she made notes that she was sending this #$@^*(doctors scribbling) for 500mg niaspan..i just couldn't make it out. now i understand what she ment by flushing, lol....it never ceases to amaze me how this forum not only entertains, but also enlightens. Thanks gang !!!!!!

djb · Post by **djb** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:54 pm

Just a note on my understanding of brain capacity and the loss of function. As I understand, the thought that we use only x% of our brain is just an old wives tale. Any loss of brain tissue is a significant loss and there is no unused reserve of brain tissue to draw from to make repairs. Once brain tissue is damaged or destroyed it is gone forever and cannot be replaced or repaired.

Now that does not mean that the brain is not adaptable. People with brain damage can and do learn how to compensate for their loss. Brain pathways are realigned and skills can be relearned if lost, but tissue is not replaced.

I think the x% concept comes from capacity of utilization and not actual tissue utilization. Sort of like a engine that runs at half throttle is only using 50% of its capacity. That does not mean that you could simply remove or damage half the engine and still expect it to run at 50% capacity. And in reality, the engine might not even be able to run or survive running at full throttle in the real world. But after you start breaking chunks off that engine you know you've got problems. Just maybe with some work, you just might be able to salvage your broken engine from the scrap pile and get it running again but at a diminished capacity and probably never near that original 50% level.

Us older folk may have wisdom and experience on our side, but the young ones got the better tools; that is until life gets them too.

goose · Post by **goose** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:43 pm

Great post snoredog -- thanks for the great explanation!!!!!
cheers
goose

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:00 am

Guest wrote:Hi Snoredog,

Indeed. Correct strategic treatment of CVD plays vital role for longevity in your current on going situation. May I know the following listed below. Please explain.

1) What brand of Naicin? Descriptions.....? I still have some prescription NIASPAN, it is simply coated time release 500mg,
my cardiologist had me at 2000 mg per day (he did it for insurance coverage as they only gave a 30 day supply then charged
$20 copay for each script, I then only took, 1 per day or 500mg. He saved me money in copays. But I also take generic 500mg Niacin which is available OTC, I use Costco Kirkland brand. It has some flushing as it is not coated like the NIASPAN (only difference between them).

2) What brand of Aspirin? Descriptions......? I use generic Kirkland brand Enteric coated 325mg Aspirin. It is orange coated just like brand name Ecotrin which is a lot more money.

3) What brand of supplemental vitamins a multi for adults? Descriptions....?

I've taken a variety of vitamins, but mainly a Premium Multi Vitamin for Adults, again Kirkland. I also recently added TruNature (Costco) Flaxseed Oil capsules, they are Omega 3 ALA, balanced with Omega 6 & 9, I take 2-3 1300mg capsules daily, this is supposed to help with macular degeneration which I also have.

4) CPAP brand? Description....? I use a PB420e

5) Plavix.....Description? I took 75mg of Plavix first 2 years post stroke, then lost medical coverage and they were wanting upwards of $200 for a month supply, I said forget that, I stopped taking it and ONLY take 1ea 325 enteric aspirin at night before bed. I take it for stroke prevention and hopefully it helps fight the inflammation from CVD, I know it helps with arthritis pain.

6) Exercise regime? I have a 7-speed Fugi comfort cruiser I ride it every night probably 5-10 miles at a fast pace, in fact just got back from riding it, it was 112F today, it has lights so I can ride it in the evening if it is too hot. I also walk the dog when I get back a couple miles. I also have a PRECOR EFX Elliptical cross trainer, don't use it every day, but I enjoy riding the bike more.

Thank you for the sharing of wise well thought opinion and experience that you walk the talk.

Best Regards,
Mckooi

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:15 am

deerslayer wrote:
jskinner wrote:
Snoredog wrote:I take an additional 500mg of niacin. Niacin attacks that Atherosclerosis better than anything and Niacin is OTC and cheap. But if you have insurance you can ask your doctor about Niaspan (http://www.niaspan.com) it is prescription only same strength but it is time-released coated so it doesn't cause as much flushing, but once you get used to the flushing and I take it at bed time along with the aspirin so by the time it dissolves I'm asleep before the flushing ever takes place.
My understanding is that you can take Niacinamide instead of strait Niacin and avoid the flush?
AHH SOOo, very interesting! another Epiphany !! i received mondays lab results in mail today from my primary(Great Gal)..she made notes that she was sending this #$@^*(doctors scribbling) for 500mg niaspan..i just couldn't make it out. now i understand what she ment by flushing, lol....it never ceases to amaze me how this forum not only entertains, but also enlightens. Thanks gang !!!!!!

The flushing just feels like a mild sunburn it only lasts a few minutes, if you take it before bed you are asleep before it ever kicks in. One thing about Niacin, you know it is getting in your blood stream cause you can feel it everywhere, even makes the hair on the back of your neck feel like it is standing up. 500mg is not bad even the uncoated generic stuff, but I was taking 4x500mg at one time, it had me feeling like I spent the day on the beach.

Niacinamide is niacin, same stuff no difference. Niaspan contains the same stuff but has a special time-release coating on it so it doesn't release it into your blood stream all at once which reduces the flushing. You get used to the flushing after about a week taking it, my cardiolgist told me to take it with my aspirin.

2000mg is about the maximum you ever want to take even under doctors supervision, it can play havoc on your liver, when on the higher dose your doctor will have you on regular blood tests to check for changes to the liver. My cardiologist had me on higher doses to get my HDL up, even at 2000mg/day it never climbed higher than 28.

deerslayer · Post by **deerslayer** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:34 am

thanks again Brother for the great info ! right now i'm on 40mg simvastatin & 1 baby aspirin before bed. the CNP said to take the niaspan 30-60 minutes before to prevent flushing. had no idea what that meant . LDL 105 , HDL 40 , TRIG 172 . don't know what AST is that's 28. said she wanted to see me back in 3 months instead of 6. finally i have a primary that cares & actually reads results of labs. between her and my SUPER Rheumatologuist , i have a pretty good safety net....& then there's Geraldine the RT i have to deal with for a sleep eval in oct. Ouy ve

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:55 am

And the bird to you guys (and gals) who have been taking my name in vain!!!!

Brain structural changes in obstructive sleep apnea.

She's too young for me!

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Machine	Mask

Additional Comments: straight cpap 12.20 AHI avg.0.79