Thought this was some intresting information to think about

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Wulfman
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Re: Thought this was some intresting information to think ab

Post by Wulfman » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:16 pm

wlo2008 wrote:Thought it was intresting on why they don't like us to change the pressure our selves. Refering to If you lower it too much, you're not providing enough pressure to fix apneic episodes. If you raise it too high, you run a risk of having pressure-induced central apneas PLUS having an adverse effect on intrathoracic pressure and venous blood return. It's not that the information is a secret protected by an esoteric society, it's that willfully providing this info can easily be made a legal issue as far as liability of the DME for example

CPAP/Bipap Provider Manuals--THE TRUTH
by: azuresky73( 185)
73 out of 88 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 4899 times Tags: cpap | bipap | respironics | resmed | sleep apnea


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've noticed that several enterprising individuals have taken it upon themselves to sell the Provider Manauls that come with CPAP and Bipap machines. This is different from the User Manuals that ARE given to the patient. The Provider Manuals give information about how to access the Clinical Menu and change pressure settings and other parameters.

These manufacturer states that the Provider's Manual is NOT to be given to patients. This is because some people may attempt to change their settings away from the setting that was determined at a titration study at a sleep lab. The reasons are varied. Perhaps some people want to lower the pressure to make it more comfortable, others may want to raise it. I think that it is fair to inform people that lowering or raising the pressure on your own can have detrimental effects to your health. If you lower it too much, you're not providing enough pressure to fix apneic episodes. If you raise it too high, you run a risk of having pressure-induced central apneas PLUS having an adverse effect on intrathoracic pressure and venous blood return. It's not that the information is a secret protected by an esoteric society, it's that willfully providing this info can easily be made a legal issue as far as liability of the DME for example.

I feel that people have the free will to do whatever they please, but I feel an obligation to educate so that their choices can be informed decisions and what risks CAN be associated. I am a Respiratory Therapist who specializes in Sleep Medicine and PAP applications so hopefully you can feel confident about what I'm saying.

However, the main things that really aggravate me about the Provider Manual sellers is that they play off of peoples' fear and ignorance. They try to convince you that you can save $$$ by making changes yourself with the help of their manual. Let me state once and for all that, DMEs DO NOT CHARGE FOR THIS SERVICE. Changing settings on a CPAP or BIPAP machine is part of being the customer of their machine. Service like this is included. There isn't even a billable code to submit to insurance for this service!?! IF your DME tries to charge you for this service, simply inform them that they are being unethical, immoral, and that if they don't follow the order and adjust the setting, then you will promptly inform your Doctor about their non-compliance. The simple fear of losing a referral source should change their mind quickly.

If you are looking for an answer to your CPAP woes, please let me say that adjusting your pressure setting probably isn't the best way to start about it. I will be soon completing an ebook which I feel will be of tremendous value to CPAP users and people with other forms of sleep apnea. Written from my perspective as an RT, I hope to clear up several myths (like the one above) and point out other little ways that people like to prey on the uniformed.

I hope you have found something of value in my guide. If you have, please vote!

Thank you!



Guide ID: 10000000003664204Guide created: 06/01/07 (updated 07/04/08)


Introduction & Importance

The blood coming from the tissues are transported by the venous system which is composed grossly by the venules, the small and the great veins. The pulmonary artery contains mixed venous blood, which is actually the sum of the superior vena cava and inferior one venous blood. Venous congestion is seen in some diseases and is consequence to abnormal high venous pressure.
Venous Return

The venous return (VR) can be defined as the volume of blood reaching the right heart. If one defines the term central venous pool - roughly the blood contained in the great thoracic veins and in the right atrium - then venous return will be the volume of blood entering this compartment, coming from the periphery. According to the Ohm’s law, there must be a pressure gradient between these two compartments. Keeping others variables constant, the venous return is inversely proportional to the central venous pressure. These two parameters can be plotted in a diagram, yielding the venous return family curves. In hemodinamically stable conditions the VR must be virtually equal to the CO - changes from one heartbeat to another do exist - otherwise blood would be damped back. CVP is always inherently driven to the equilibrium value that makes CO and VR equal. At CVP of 2 mmHg, CO is about 5 l/min.
Major factors influencing venous return

1) Respiratory cycle - Central venous pressure (CVP) decreases with inspiration thereby increasing venous return. This is explained by the negative intrathoracic pressure originated at inspiration, which is transmitted to the great veins of the thorax; moreover, the downward diaphragm movement during this phase helps the pulling of blood toward the heart by increasing the intrabdominal pressure. At expiration, the mechanisms reverse. 2) Venous tone - is governed by autonomous system. 3) Right heart function - The blood reaching the right ventricle is pumped to the pulmonary circulation and therefore will not be damped backward in the venous system. 4) Gravity - discussed below 5) Muscle pump - discussed below


http://www.medstudents.com.br/basic/cardfs/cardfs4.htm
OK, but that "snip" you quoted is from what I interpreted to be from a document authored by: azuresky73( 185) and was not from Wendy, herself.
In my opinion, she was only posting that article for us to read.


Den

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Post by Banned » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:28 pm

Thanks for walking me trough that, Den. Sometimes it's hard for me tell who is writing or quoting. I'll try and read more carefully before I post. I sincerely apologize to Wendy and I apologize to the forum. Maybe this just wasn't a dial-winger's topic.

Banned
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Wulfman
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Post by Wulfman » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:38 pm

Thanks for the link, Dave.

PS.....Gracie is a real cutie.


Den
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
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mindy
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Post by mindy » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:46 pm

Great link, SAG!

Unfortunately I can't edit my previous post to log it as Wulfman and Banned did (since I wasn't looged in). So consider it edited to delete.

Mindy

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Post by StillAnotherGuest » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:16 pm

Wulfman wrote:....Gracie is a real cutie.
Thanks, Den.

I'll have to post another photo. Don't have too many, tho. Just the 457 in the "My Pictures" folder and the 1300 still in the camera.

Hmmm, better get another memory card. Do they make a 100 GB?

SAG
Image

Aromatherapy may help CPAP compliance. Lavender, Mandarin, Chamomile, and Sweet Marjoram aid in relaxation and sleep. Nature's Gift has these and a blend of all four called SleepEase.

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Post by mindy » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:08 pm

For Gracie they'd better get busy on making that 1 GB card She's adorable!

Mindy

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Post by wlo2008 » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:25 pm


I should have posted the link from where I found that statement. Thanks for posting that for me.

And Banned thank you for your E-mail and you deleted your comment before I could see it. LOL.....hmmmmmm makes me wonder what you said.

You are a good guy Banned. So don't worry if I would have gotten hurt. I am a big girl and if I felt that I needed to defend my self I would have, but would have been to explain that what it was for.

But I wanted to let everyone know not to be confused that I wrote the statement. I just thought it was intresting. I think we should all be involved in our treatment, but should not keep the doc in the dark about what we think needs done. And if they don't like that you want to be involved then get a new doc. I have had to do that before. The one I have listons to what I have to say. And he says that I am right. Most of the time. LOL. But that is because I do my research and I find the pros and cons with any treatment or illness that I may have or have.

But there are just some out there that should not have access to the adjustments because they have no clue what they are doing and are new to cpap. Some just don't do there research and that is a very very bad thing in turn.

Hope that clears a lot up.

Wendy

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Post by mindy » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:28 pm

Isn't that rather a paternalistic point of view? What ever happened to adults taking responsibility for their own actions!

m

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Post by wlo2008 » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:35 pm

mindy wrote:Isn't that rather a paternalistic point of view? What ever happened to adults taking responsibility for their own actions!

m
Its sad that most will not take responsibility for their actions. I think that is a number one reason that the Xpap is still an RX. I think when people and the doc's are more educated. We will see that we can get the Xpap's with no RX.

But intill everyone is willing to educate them selves I don't see that happening. Not to say anyone on this forum is not. Just that in general some just don't have a clue. And till then the DME's and Doc's will be saving their behinds. LOL

Wendy