Nasty subject - dried blood in nostril

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:54 am

I've been tooling along with the Liberty for a bit, and decided to try the small cushions last night because I was getting an irritation at the soft middle part of my nose, where it meets my face. Figured it was because the cushion flanges were rubbing against this area.

Kept the same humidifier setting on my H3i, used Nexcare tape to keep the cushions in place (I do this with the medium cushions as well). This morning I saw that the leak rate wasn't too bad (.10L/s), but when I blew my nose there was dried bloody material coming out of my right nostril (not the left). Is it possible I needed to up the humidity?

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:18 am

It could be that you need more humidity. It could also be that a sore developed when you were first using the nasal pillows part of the Liberty. The scab may have come off this morning! I use a little (very little-just a light coating in each nostril) Ayr nasal gel in each nostril before I put it on. I have the Liberty and a couple of other nasal pillow and a nasal prong mask. These can all cause such sores as we adjust to them and the nostrils toughen. The Ayr gel helps. It also helps the seal. Don't use anything with a petroleum base like Vaseline. It can be bad for you and damage the mask. Ayr is a SALINE nasal gel.

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:36 am

I actually do use the Ayr gel, Hawthorne. Guess I should have said that. I don't want to be too graphic, but I don't think it was a sore. It was more like the kind of stuff that left over after a bloody nose.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:31 am

Don't worry about being too graphic! People here want to be able to help.
I'm thinking, then it may be that you are adapting to the pillows. My husband has a weak blood vessel (at least one!) in just one of his nostrils and blowing his nose when he has a cold and has to do it a lot, ALWAYS gives him a nose bleed. If you had a weak blood vessel near the entrance to your nose where the pillows hit, the same thing may be happening.
It could also be just a matter of toughing up the nose. The pillows have to soften a bit and adapt to you as well.
I just had another thought. The Ayr gel may be the culprit! It is saline which is a salty substance and that could be causing it. I was using a saline rinse at one point (NeilMed) and I was getting that "bloody stuff" in one nostril. I stopped using the rinse ( still use the gel) and the problem stopped.
Some people here have suggested that the Ayr gel be used during the day, maybe once or twice, and not at bedtime. That could work. There would probably be enough Ayr gel left at bedtiem to be enough to help with the adapting and with the seal.
Also, if you are like me I tend to blow my nose fairly hard before I put on the mask. It can happen to me then too. I've been trying to always blow my nose gently.
If nothing works and it keeps happening you had best see your doctor and be graphic with him/her!
I hope you can get it resolved easily and soon. Let me know how it goes.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:42 am

I got a bloody scab last winter. I used Neosporin in the AM to heal it up, upped my HH a little, and it went away and didn't come back.

Good luck!
Babs

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:47 am

I was just re reading your original post on this and wondered - Is the bloody stuff from the soft middle part of your nose, as you said, where the pillow meets the nose, or is it actually from you nose? The Ayr gel has aloe, so a little on that spot during the day, if that's where it might be coming from, could help it heal.
You may have to spell off with another mask if it doesn't stop or until it stops. It appears you need a full face mask since you are using the Liberty. Do you have a nasal mask you could switch off with once in a while. Even if it's not a full face one, you could tape your mouth. I mostly use other than my Hybrid and tape my mouth. For me, one piece of 1" non-iritating paper tape put on vertically, after putting chapstick on my lips works. I fold a bit over so I can take it off easily and have the chapstick to save my lips. It seems to work well - for me (doesn't mean it will work for you but worth a try) and I get AHI under 1 almost every night and a very low leak rate and vibratory snore. Again, let me know how it goes.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:50 am

Babs' suggestion is also a possible solution. It's great to have someone else give input to help here. Thanks Babs!

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:22 pm

Hawthorne (and Babs!), thanks for the suggestions. Here's a bit more info...

H, I think you may have hit on something with the weak vessel. This just happens to be the nostril from which I used to get nasty nosebleeds when I was a pre-teen. Had that for years, and then it suddenly went away. (BTW, it's not the soft outer part for this problem, but definitely the inner nostril.) Also to your point about the Ayr, I could try a night or two without it, and apply for the daytime as you suggest. Will see what happens.

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:31 pm

tony
last year, after about 3 months on cpap, i started getting nosebleeds every day, even though i was using the hh and a nasal lubricant...turned out i had an extremely erupted vessel in my nose (think hemmoroids for noses ) and the constant airflow hitting it was drying it out and also irritating it...so i had it chemically cauterized in the doctor's office...sadly, mine was pretty bad, so i still had to have it electrically cauterized during septoplasty to repair my deviated septum...i recently got cocky with not using the hh and not bothering to use my nasal lubricant and i had a couple of really sudden spontaneous nosebleeds

but if you don't want to go the ENT route, at least lube up with 'secaris', a water based lubricant specifically for the nose, or something like it

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:34 pm

Hey tony22! Working together, we may just get this solved!! My husband has dealt with that weak blood vessel all his life (well, since his horse threw him as a teenager and then stepped on his nose!!!) LOL! The Doctor said he could cauterize it but no guarantee that would help so he never had it done. Let me know how it goes.

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:46 pm

Sharon, yikes! I hope I won't have to go that route. My nosebleeds stopped when I was about 14 or so, and for all intents and purposes has never bothered me since. I'll up the humidity and keep track of things.

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:15 am

It's the next day. I upped the humidity, still used a bit of Ayr Gel just around the base of my nostrils. There seems to be a noticable improvement. There were no dry bloody bits when I blew my nose. I think I'm on the right track.

neverbetter · Post by **neverbetter** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:01 pm

That should never happen.
Both my wife and I use the Hybrid and the wife uses the nasal-Aire and that has never happened to us.
Go to the Dr. and have him take a look up your nose.
I know that the Hybrid has a gentler pillow but that still shouldn't matter.

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:04 pm

tony22,

I have the same problem with a weaker blood vessel in the nostril. It was a very common occurrence for me to suddenly have a nosebleed. This happened from early childhood to over the age of 40.

(It got so that I would just pinch the nose and continue on because I was so tired of traipsing down to the school office as a kid.)

Sharon, this was despite having both nostrils chemically cauterized as a 4 year old. It turns out I have bleeding disorders, so that probably was a contributing factor...or rather, lack of the clotting factor...LOL

The solution for me was given by my allergist/immunologist:

Part I: Saline nasal wash twice a day (1/8 t. salt, 1/2 c. warm water, pinch of baking soda made fresh and squirted up nostrils with a needle-free syringe, or bulb irrigator)

Part II: Flonase used twice daily

Now, one of the side effects of Flonase IS bleeding, but the bleeding is just a watery pink discharge for the first few days for me. Other than that, my nose has bled only a few times in the last 12 or so years.

I have used cpap now for over two years and not had any additional problems with bleeding due to the therapy. The humidity, in fact, does seem to be very helpful.

Ayr gel (aka Secaris in Canada) seemed to have a fragrance that bothered me.

However, that could just be ME!

Best wishes with those nosebleeds. BTW, I have a foolproof way to remove blood from cloth without scrubbing...dampen the cloth and spread liquid Tide on the area, keep the area damp overnight or up to a day or two, and the stain will simply disappear. Then, launder as usual.

Happy sleeping without irritation!

Karen

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:18 pm

tony22 - Glad things are improving. I guess keep up what you are doing and keep an eye on the situation. Make a note of when it happens, what your humidity setting was, whether you used Ayr gel and what time of day. I'm suggesting a a kind of diary so that, if things get worse or don't continue to improve (we hope that's not how it goes), then you will have a history for the doctor - whom you should see if it gets worse or doesn't continue to improve. Take care.