How does manufacturer pricing affect you?

Bookbear · Post by **Bookbear** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:25 am

Wayne, my comment was intended as a general statement about false economies, not a specific statement to the effect that cheaper cpaps were defective (which is not what I said). I do apologize if I didn't make myself clear there.

If cost is the only parameter looked at, a non-data capable machine is cheaper than a data capable one and therefore more 'economical'; but it is a false economy for the patient if the ability to gather data is important to the successful outcome of treatment (which I believe it is).

As to my other comments: Say, for example, if I read posts from users that a particular brand of data capable cpap machine has software that regularly drops a day or two of data in reports generated by its software, and that software is the only way to get detailed reports, I would factor that into a purchasing decision, along with price, availability, shipping costs, cost of consumables, etc., etc. What I am trying to say is that I would look at multiple aspects, not just price, whether I was paying out of pocket, or my insurance was paying all or part of the cost.

Nighthawkeye, the poll was a good idea, but I think it needs another response choice. Two of your choices have 'price doesn't matter' as components. How about something along the lines of "Pricing plays a part in my decisions, but I also look at other factors," or something similar, a middle way.

WNJ · Post by **WNJ** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:29 pm

Bookbear wrote:Wayne, my comment was intended as a general statement about false economies, not a specific statement to the effect that cheaper cpaps were defective (which is not what I said). I do apologize if I didn't make myself clear there. . . .

Hi Bookbear,

Sorry, but you wandered into a rant about the new anti-competitive policies of Respironics, ResMed, and F&P. These three recently required that Internet sellers of their equipment increase their prices significantly, in order to protect the brick-and-mortar DME’s selling their equipment.

I’m coming at this from the standpoint of 1) comparing roughly equal features, and 2) anger with the anti-competitive policies of Respironics, ResMed, and F&P.

For an Auto with heated humidifier plus software (a very popular bundle with readers here), I think you will agree that the Respironics M Series Auto plus Encore Viewer software priced at $1,019 + $139 = $1,158 is no better than the Respironics M Series Auto plus Encore Viewer software priced at $599 + $119 = $718. (Before and after the price increase.)

Or the ResMed S8 AutoSet Vantage at $1,060 compared to the same machine at about $800. (AutoScan Software = another $185)

To me, the Puritan Bennett GoodKnight 420E (auto) with heated humidifier and Silverlining software at $595 looks awfully good right now, compared to $1,158 (Respironics) or $1,245 (ResMed.)

The DeVillbiss IntelliPAP (auto) with heated humidifier at $475 looks awfully good provided they come through with the promised software.

I hope many other CPAP shoppers look closely at the other good choices available.

Wayne

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:08 pm

If....

1. I were starting "cpap" treatment now for the first time...

2. I did not need exhalation relief...could breathe out ok against the pressure I was prescribed...

3. Wanted an autopap (since it can be used as straight cpap, too, if one straight pressure turned out to be better for me)...

4. Wanted a machine that would give very detailed data and had good software available for purchase...

I would choose the Puritan Bennett Goodknight 420E autopap and its Silverlining software.

I have that machine. It was the first autopap I used. I still like the 420E very much, and still think its software gives the best detailed data of any (both of the "r" manufacturers') I've used.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:13 pm

rested gal wrote:I still like the 420E very much, and still think its software gives the best detailed data of any (both of the "r" manufacturers') I've used.

Does Silverlining software give leak data? I looked at it and it said it gave apnea and hypopnea details but then it said it gave "extensive patient data" but did not elaborate.

Jerry

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:59 pm

6PtStar wrote:Does Silverlining software give leak data?

Yes. And a lot more.

Below is a link to some screen shots of the wonderful 96 hour graph in Silverlining. A person can scroll right and left on the graph to see about two weeks worth of consecutive nights. Each time the machine is used (a night's sleep, or a nap, or just turning the machine on and back off for a minute) is a "session." Each session is separate by the vertical dotted lines on the graph. Very handy for looking at several nights side by side.

http://www.tnlc.com/Lara/laura/osa/420E ... reenshots/

When I put the screenshots into Photoshop to make them into jpg's, I added some comments. My added comments on the pictures are not part of the software display itself.

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:11 pm

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:27 pm

Kinda looks like price is, by far, the determining factor in machine purchase. I know it is for me.

Thanks to all who responded.

Regards,
Bill

pmnorth · Post by **pmnorth** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:09 pm

I live in Ontario, Canada, so I am ensured to some extent by the government health insurance plan but there are some catches to it.
1. The government calculates the cost of setting-up the machine and its cost at $1000+ with a co-pay of 25%.
2. The cost of the mask and headgear is not covered and the suppliers here charge at least $300 for that.
3. The Canadian dollar is on a par with the U.S. dollar and these prices apparently reflect that.
4. Any other accessories (software, smart cards, readers, etc.) are not covered. The dealer here wanted $279.00 just for the Resmed card reader (no software included). I purchased the reader over the internet at CPAP.com for $69. Even that I find pretty high since it is just a standard ACR38 smart card reader that can be picked up for about $30. The only difference is that the Resmed version has a plastic guide that sits the smaller Resmed card in the proper position.

So, the machine (a Resmed S8 Elite), mask, headgear, and card reader will set me back at least $829. If I could boycott these sharks I certainly would. Since I can't I'll buy as much as I can from the internet and hope I don't need any repairs since the local dealers do not honor warrantees on anything purchased over the internet.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:30 pm

I'll add how it affects me, it makes me MAD, price fixing in any form does. It won't hurt me much because I prepare for the worst in advance, I buy when, where, and what is the best vaule to me.

I can't buy or store up 1,000 gal of Gas, or tons of food, but I can shop smartly, with people who treat me right. Being a American I can stock up on ammo, and did, for when it goes farther to _ell in a handbasket. I'm ready! Jim

gasparama · Post by **gasparama** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:38 pm

Has anyone taken advantage of the offer on cpap.com to email for a true price? I may do that in the near future.

FWIW, my local dme carefully told me how he voted (perhaps answered a poll put out by the manufacturers) to set the high MAP. Surely that doesn't surprise anyone. I was just surprised to hear him admit it. Sadly, I kept my mouth shut because he keeps giving me free, new Activa frames and head braces.

Blue Snuffle nose · Post by **Blue Snuffle nose** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:31 am

Hi People

With the prices of cpap......I'd prefer a rent-a-cpap way. But if I had to buy one I'd go for the grand spanking new cpap as if you pay less second hand cpap, it may have few glitches and faults here and there that effects it's full running potential. An't worth buying a second hand one and finding out that has faults here and there that effect your sleep!!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:45 am

what a stupid thread. I salute any manufacturer in its attempt to establish accurate and representative pricing for its products if, in the past, nothing like that existed other than a handful of low-margin retailers battling on who can make the least profit and essentially "setting" a market price (nonsense).
What you geniuses don't know is that the manufacturer already made its needed profit when it sold its product to its resellers. The LACK of MAP policy only negatively affects resellers.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:04 am

Guest wrote:what a stupid thread. I salute any manufacturer in its attempt to establish accurate and representative pricing for its products if, in the past, nothing like that existed other than a handful of low-margin retailers battling on who can make the least profit and essentially "setting" a market price (nonsense).
What you geniuses don't know is that the manufacturer already made its needed profit when it sold its product to its resellers. The LACK of MAP policy only negatively affects resellers.

We KNOW THAT, silly. The MAP policies screwed EVERYBODY. You can salute all you want to, but what's going to happen when the wheels fall off of this (global) economy? People are going to be out of work.....won't have insurance.....if they can still afford to get a sleep study or somehow determine that they do have sleep apnea, where do you think they're going to buy their machines? From some DME supplier that's locked into charging 3X the price......or from the lowest-cost alternative they can find? With the lack of sales, the DME shops/companies will be laying off people and closing their doors. It ain't gonna be a pretty picture for the sleep industry and DMEs. I still think at some point, you'll see the machines and supplies on shelves at Wal-Mart stores.....right next to the glucose meters and blood pressure testing machines.

Den

Paul56 · Post by **Paul56** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:09 am

NightHawkeye wrote:Just curious ...

Insurance paid everything on the original invoice except I was out of pocket $38... which is no big deal.

I have not submitted to insurance for the surge protector, software, card reader or distilled water. Not certain a surge protector or software would be considered necessary "supplies". I suppose they need to draw the line somewhere... otherwise folks might also submit for a table to put the machine on... and a house to put the machine in... etc etc.

Paul56 · Post by **Paul56** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:10 am

Guest wrote:what a stupid thread. I salute any manufacturer in its attempt to establish accurate and representative pricing for its products if, in the past, nothing like that existed other than a handful of low-margin retailers battling on who can make the least profit and essentially "setting" a market price

Ya ya... and sometimes I "salute" other boneheaded drivers when I'm driving. Some of them "wave" back too.

How does manufacturer pricing affect you?

How do the pricing polocies affect your buying decisions?

How do the pricing polocies affect your buying decisions?

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Additional Comments: Avg. AHI .4