RESPIRONICS FISHER & PAYKEL MINIMUM INTERNET PRICING

hospital admin · Post by **hospital admin** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:59 pm

You are correct.... don't over-react.... It's only an ADVERTISED price restriction

If cpap.com does not try to use it as an excuse to up their REAL prices it will have no effect

THEY are being hurt by not being allowed to advertise their real price

I would advise them to simply not advertise the price and include a statement that the manufacturer will not let them advertise their price and encourage potential customers to call

SONY does the same thing on their camera and computer equipment

The manufacturer is responding to pressure from the crummy local medical equipment companies who have always said that their local "service" justified a higher price

We now have enough experence with internet providers to know that they can meet our needs as well or better than local companies and the "locals" don't like having that truth exposed.

Medicare has decided to buy all machines after a brief trial period... I think it's 3mos, Their ststement in announcing this decision was that they have found that the machines do not require ongoing service and the implication is that the patients don't need a local dealer either.

We all know that the level of knowledge the local techs have is pathetic. The best source of information on a technical question that doesn't require our physician's input is a users group where we can find someone who has had first hand experience with the same issue.

In my experience the respritory therapists the local suppliers hire are the "bottom of the barrel" and I've never met one who even took the time to sleep with a RAD so they could experience what patients are trying to tell them.

The issues that are the most difficult to resolve are the "little things" that they can't learn in school ... we have to work them out "with a little help from our friends"

Advertised price" is a non-issue"

WNJ · Post by **WNJ** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:41 pm

hospital admin wrote:. . .The manufacturer is responding to pressure from the crummy local medical equipment companies who have always said that their local "service" justified a higher price . . .

When I was young, I remember a neighbor occasionally taking one of his mares to get her “serviced.”

Whenever I hear someone talking about “service,” I can’t help but wonder who is getting screwed now.

Yes, it is still possible to get better prices by calling, but I wonder how many will go to that trouble. Respironics has erected a pretty good barrier to competition by denying patients the ability to shop and make purchases on-line.

Hardly "a non-issue" in my book.

Wayne

greyhound · Post by **greyhound** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:23 pm

Unless I've skimmed their letter too quickly (quite possible), it looks like Respironics has covered the obvious work arounds - click to see our special price or showing a lower price once the item is in the shopping cart.

Probably the best thing an internet vendor can do is to make it very easy for prospective customers to request a complete price list for all Respironics products. If cpap.com were to implement such a process, it would be a nuisance, but would still allow lower pricing.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:49 pm

Sounds like they want to sell cars. Put a MSRP sticker on it then see how much they can sell them for

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:25 pm

hospital admin wrote:You are correct.... don't over-react.... It's only an ADVERTISED price restriction

If cpap.com does not try to use it as an excuse to up their REAL prices it will have no effect

The problem is that Respironics will not allow Internet companies to display IN ANY PLACE the ACTUAL price of the item. This will force the provider to ACTUALLY change the prices because they have no method of allowing customers to check-out through an online portal and cannot support the volume of calls required to place every respironics order by phone. They ARE BEING FORCED to change there real prices because of this. There is no option for online order placement, such as electronics manufacturers who allow "add to cart to see your price" - Respironics specifically notes this in their policy. They are forcing their hands for sure.

deerslayer · Post by **deerslayer** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:46 pm

wnj wrote
When I was young, I remember a neighbor occasionally taking one of his mares to get her “serviced.”

Whenever I hear someone talking about “service,” I can’t help but wonder who is getting screwed now. ouch ! .....on a positive note,spring is just around the corner....kilowatt hrs. will go through the roof

patientadvocate · Post by **patientadvocate** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:03 am

I have read both Fisher and Paykel and Respironics MAP Policy and I can tell you that this policy absolutly ties the hands of the internet providers. When do we say enough is enough. Big business is runing the healthcare industry and we the patients are being forced to pay higher prices. Internet providers aren't gong to be able to provide 24hr customer servce to allow us to call at all hours to place our orders. We have to express our dissappointment and voice our concerns about these over inflated prices to our Congress Person, Senator, CMS/Medicare, Patient Advocacy Groups ECT... With modern technology we can email a letter to all the above and who knows, maybe they will open an investigation into what the real reason is behind these MAP Policies. I am starting Monday to email everyone I can think of and I challenge you to do the same. I think that there are a few Internet Providers that will get creative in their approach to helping the patients and make it as easy on us as possible but again, my question is why should they be forced to change their business model when their main goal is helping customers find healthcare at a redued price. I think Apria and Lincare are behind alot of this and I would advise all of us to get the word out that if your physician sends you to either of them for ANYTHING, run the other direction.

deerslayer · Post by **deerslayer** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:33 am

[quote="patientadvocate"]I have read both Fisher and Paykel and Respironics MAP Policy and I can tell you that this policy absolutly ties the hands of the internet providers. When do we say enough is enough. Big business is runing the healthcare industry and we the patients are being forced to pay higher prices. Internet providers aren't gong to be able to provide 24hr customer servce to allow us to call at all hours to place our orders. We have to express our dissappointment and voice our concerns about these over inflated prices to our Congress Person, Senator, CMS/Medicare, Patient Advocacy Groups ECT... With modern technology we can email a letter to all the above and who knows, maybe they will open an investigation into what the real reason is behind these MAP Policies. I am starting Monday to email everyone I can think of and I challenge you to do the same. I think that there are a few Internet Providers that will get creative in their approach to helping the patients and make it as easy on us as possible but again, my question is why should they be forced to change their business model when their main goal is helping customers find healthcare at a redued price. I think Apria and Lincare are behind alot of this and I would advise all of us to get the word out that if your physician sends you to either of them for ANYTHING, run the other direction.

Velbor · Post by **Velbor** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:20 pm

patientadvocate wrote:I have read both Fisher and Paykel and Respironics MAP Policy and I can tell you that this policy absolutly ties the hands of the internet providers.

First, many thanks to hannahsmom6 / nathania / patientadvocate for posting the Respironics documents. This is a great service to this community. I can't help but wonder, though, about the motivation for the multiplicity of log-in names this person is using.

I must also wonder about the use of "suggestive" names such as "patientadvocate" and "hospital admin" (whose writing style does not suggest that it is from an actual hospital administrator) by posters here.

With regard to the quote above, while not trying to minimize the effect of such policies, I would suggest that changes may not be quite so dire as we are being urged to view them.

We have seen that there are internet CPAP sellers of ResMed products who are NOT "ResMed Preferred Internet Providers." They reportedly buy their stock from wholesalers rather than directly from ResMed, and thus having no direct business relationship with ResMed, they are able to "ignore" some of ResMed's "official" restrictions.

Just so, it seems probable that some internet CPAP sellers may respond in the same way to these Respironics policies. If they cease to purchase their stock directly from Respironics, the threat of Respironics "cutting them off" becomes moot. Under these circumstances, they would seem to be able to advertise any prices they wish.

Surely this situation may hurt some internet sellers. and perhaps even drive some out of business. This would be unfortunate, and any decrease in competition is not good for us consumers. Undoubtedly prices will go up, as undoubtedly prices always go up anyway.

But the angst displayed by some posters in this thread - I don't know exactly where their interests lie, but there seems to be some other agenda ....

DME Daddy · Post by **DME Daddy** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:38 pm

Is the intent of these manufacturer policies to drive business back to the DMEs that was lost to the internet?

Are internet retailers behaving badly towards patients or others, forcing the manufactures to take action?

Readers who buy from the internet, will you move a greater percentage of your purchases to DMEs in the future? Are these policies going to drive newbies back to DMEs?

Yes, I work in the industry and value your views. That is why I lurk here.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:08 pm

DME Daddy wrote:
Readers who buy from the internet, will you move a greater percentage of your purchases to DMEs in the future? Are these policies going to drive newbies back to DMEs?

Not until they get their act together. They fight me when I tell them what I want. If it is not stocked I can't have it. Every time I want something I have to go get another script. I can file one scriprt online and order what ever I want for as long as I need it.

I would rather go to a local DME because my insurance will pay them. When I buy online I pay out of pocket but I would rather do that than have the hassle. I think I would pay even a little more online rather than buy from any of the DME's that I have tried.

Every internet supplier I have dealt with has bent over backwards to be helpful and get me what I want. They have been prompt. I have never had to wait a month to get something because it was out of stock like I did from my DME.

You can pass my comments on to those in the industry. If they want patients back this is what it will take.

Jerry

MissDozer · Post by **MissDozer** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:24 pm

DME Daddy wrote: Readers who buy from the internet, will you move a greater percentage of your purchases to DMEs in the future?

Not in my case. The DME I dealt with hasn't even touched base with me to see whether or not things were going well, or if I needed supplies. Luckily for me, the sleep center where I was tested is good, and the staff is always ready to help me when problems arise. As far as equipment and supplies, I'll continue purchasing online, even though it's coming out of my own pocket.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:44 pm

DME Daddy wrote:Is the intent of these manufacturer policies to drive business back to the DMEs that was lost to the internet?

Are internet retailers behaving badly towards patients or others, forcing the manufactures to take action?

Readers who buy from the internet, will you move a greater percentage of your purchases to DMEs in the future? Are these policies going to drive newbies back to DMEs?

Yes, I work in the industry and value your views. That is why I lurk here.

Part of the issue is to prop up the higher prices that b & m DMEs charge insurance/Medicare/CMS......and, probably to try to drive some of the Internet buyers back to the locals.......that part won't work.

I've never spent a dime at the locals here......and I'm not about to start. (I'm also stocked up for a long, long time.)
As far as the newbies go.....hard to tell at this point. Lots of forum members buy locally and are happy with the service. Part of it seems to depend on their insurance coverage.....and whether their experiences are good or bad.

We appreciate you lurking....

Den

WNJ · Post by **WNJ** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:50 pm

Is the intent of these manufacturer policies to drive business back to the DMEs that was lost to the internet?

Maybe. But more likely the lower prices charged by the internet dealers were serving to depress the reimbursement the DME’s could get from Medicare. And perhaps insurance companies, too.

Are internet retailers behaving badly towards patients or others, forcing the manufactures to take action?

I’ve heard no hint of a suggestion that this is/was the case. For myself, I’ve gotten great service from cpap.com. If I hadn’t gotten such terrible service from my DME, I would never have sought out an alternative and found this place.

Readers who buy from the internet, will you move a greater percentage of your purchases to DMEs in the future? Are these policies going to drive newbies back to DMEs?

Me? Hard to see me ever going back to a local DME.

Other newbies? I doubt this policy will have more than a marginal effect. Internet prices will still be far better than local DME prices. I think it will mainly serve to support a higher rate of reimbursement from Medicare and insurance companies, a cost passed on to taxpayers and premium payers.

Yes, I work in the industry and value your views. That is why I lurk here.

I appreciate your honesty and your interest.

I would offer the following thoughts:

If DME’s want to keep a healthy share of future business that would otherwise go to internet dealers, they need to provide good value for the money they are paid.

They need to hire/train well-qualified RT’s and reward them for providing good service. Make darn sure the RT’s make the promised follow-up contacts with patients, etc.

In making business decisions they need to give more thought to the well-being of their patients, not the bottom line at the expense of patient care. IMO, this includes making the equipment of many manufacturers available, not just the equipment of one manufacturer who gives you a sweetheart deal in exchange for exclusivity.

Wayne

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:55 pm

DME Daddy wrote:Readers who buy from the internet, will you move a greater percentage of your purchases to DMEs in the future? Are these policies going to drive newbies back to DMEs?

I won't be going back to a DME, even if internet provider prices were to go up significantly. In my encounters with DME's, they have had an overinflated view of the services and "expertise" they provide to cpap users, and are just a pain in the neck to deal with.

In my first encounter with a DME, they lady picked a mask for me based literally on what was avaialble within arm's reach, and then went through a painstakingly precise adjustment of the velcro straps. Given the rather random method of mask choice, this extreme care in strap adjustent was almost laughable. The vibe I got was that this big to-do being made out of the strap adjustment was supposed to show just how "expert" this rt was. And that day, they were handing out the exact same machine to everyone coming through that day and going through a pre-printed checklist of what buttons to show us to push and how often to tell us to wash things- not much expertise needed there.

My first DME doens't take my insurance anymore so I called a new one, figuring it might be convenient to have a local place where I can pick up filters and a hose on the way home. Well, in order to buy filters and hoses from these esteemed members of the medical community, they have to see not just a prescription from my doc, but a copy of my sleep study. And I must make an appointment, and come in to meet with a Respiratory Therapist. I told the lady on the phone that I've been using cpap for a few years, I know how my machine works and just wanted to see if I could get filters and hoses, but to no avail. Once again, I got the vibe that they were trying to play the "Expertise of the Respiratory Therapist" card in an inappropriate manner.

Geez, no wonder they have to charge $40 for a hose.

RESPIRONICS FISHER & PAYKEL MINIMUM INTERNET PRICING

advertised price policies

Re: advertised price policies

Re: advertised price policies

Machine	Mask

Additional Comments: straight cpap 12.20 AHI avg.0.79