Smart Card Data Useless??? That's What I Was Told..

beneyw · Post by **beneyw** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:23 pm

I had my DME print out the last few months of results from my machine's smart card and went back to the physician's office where I had undergone the original sleep study for interpretation. I was more or less told the data can only tell how many hours the machine was used and the rest of the data is not reliable or accurate. So, I played the straight guy and asked.."How am I supposed to assess any progress in an objective fashion?" You can guess the answer...."By having another sleep study" was the reply.

At this point I said...I knew that would be your answer and hung up.

Any comments anyone???

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:30 pm

when i went for a check up with my sleep doc in november, i wanted to be able to support my decision to gradually increase my own pressure, from the original titration pressure of 6 to 8.5, where i was having better results, so i printed a month's worth of reports to show him

he said, "you know, those aren't really that accurate"

i said, "well, i know it's not the same as a study done in a lab, but isn't this the report my RT would print if i brought her my smart card?

he said, "yes"

i said, "and wouldn't she send the reports to you to check on my pressure?"

he said, "well, yes"

i said, "and wouldn't you tell her to adjust my pressure accordingly?"

he said, "yes"

i said, "great...i've done it all myself then"

2 weeks ago, i had another titration study; at the follow up app't he told me my pressure needed to be increased again, and asked me who adjusts it for me...i reminded him that i do it myself and he said, "ok bump it up to 9.5 then and i'll see you in may"

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:55 pm

beneyw wrote:I was more or less told the data can only tell how many hours the machine was used and the rest of the data is not reliable or accurate.

I was told by my VA sleep doc that the Encore Pro software was 100% accurate - I repeat 100% accurate - hmmm I wonder why they come out with software revisions then?

I expect reality lies somewhere in between the two opinions. I am finding myself another sleep doc and suggest you do the same.

beneyw · Post by **beneyw** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:25 pm

Already have selected another sleep doctor...you bet!

mbrown · Post by **mbrown** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:40 pm

I was wondering where I can get a copy of the Encore Pro software. I have the viewer software and would like to see the difference. I live is a very small town and am personal friends with my family doctor. She and I are both relatively new to sleep apnea, so I have been doing a lot of research and helping her to understand a lot of the ins and outs of it all. She is very receptive to what I have learned and has been a great help.

I just go in and show her my results and then we talk about how I am feeling and then determine what pressures to set the machine at, etc.

This method works as well as the sleep study for me. I was unable to sleep at the sleep lab due to all the probes, etc. so I only received a few hours sleep. From that, the sleep lab gave me a loaner auto machine and had me use it a month at home to determine pressures, etc. In the meantime, while I was waiting for their report, my doctor got me set up with the M series auto machine. Using the viewer software, I determined that I needed a pressure of 9 cm on the bottom and 12 cm on top and help from you all. My doctor agreed with this based on the data and information.

The next week, I received the report from the sleep lab using my sleep data plus the data from my month on the loaner. They suggested a beginning pressure of 8.5 or 9 cm on cpap.

So my self study and talking with my family doctor produced the same results and so far with these settings, I am averaging around a 1.5 AHI with ranges from .5 to 2.5 and am feeling much better!

I would however like to get the Encore Pro Software and the Analyzer, so my doctor and I might use it to see if it helps us further with my treatment.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:05 pm

beneyw wrote:Already have selected another sleep doctor...you bet!

When you hear that, do like a Bass, shake the hook out of your mouth, and go on looking for the next meal. Jim

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:20 pm

I wonder what percentage of sleep docs use the data capable machines for ANY reason - client unable to sleep in lab, medical condition not conducive to transporting, reassessment if problems with treatment, etc. And how many prescribe treatment based on machine data? Seems to me if it is acceptable to use on ANY occasion, their arguement about the data's usefulness is shot down. If a doctor says the machine data is not comparable to a full sleep study, and for some cases a full study is needed, that's true. But if any medical personnel tells me again that machine data has NO value, I'll ask them #1 if they have ever used them and #2 if they can point me to the studies that prove the data is useless. Maybe I'll start a poll for forum members to report their sleep doctor's stand on this.
Kathy

sparky2 · Post by **sparky2** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:51 pm

mbrown wrote:I was wondering where I can get a copy of the Encore Pro software. .....

I would however like to get the Encore Pro Software and the Analyzer, so my doctor and I might use it to see if it helps us further with my treatment.

mbrown,

I have been on other boards and usually there is a policy about discussing how to "pirate" software, or in some cases, even "hacking" hardware that one owns. I tried to see what the rules were here, but I could not find a sticky etc. that explained their official position here, but I will assume that it is either not allowed or not encouraged.

I have written software that is sold in the marketplace myself and have been concerned of lost revenue do to piracy. I would sometimes wonder if I had lost a sale because someone had gotten an illegal copy. This, however, it not the case with Encore Pro. Respironics does not loose a sale if I obtain a copy that I did not pay for because they would not sell it to me - there is no sale to loose. They could loose a sale of Encore Viewer software if a person substituted a pirated Pro version to fulfill their needs - which is why I do not feel hypocritical as I have purchased a legitimate copy of the Viewer.

In any event, I would think that your doctor could purchase the software. I would guess that he could actually give it to you after he did. I would suggest that you wait and see if an "old timer" around here feels differently, but I suspect that they will not - at least not openly. I would guess that the way things go these days, that this website would feel that they would be opening themselves up to legal hassles if they allowed or did not otherwise somewhat sensor discussions on this subject. You know, if someone accidentally messed up their prescription by typing the wrong thing into the Pro software, they may be held responsible somehow.

Sparky2

mbrown · Post by **mbrown** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:07 pm

I was not suggesting that I wouldn't pay for it. I was asking if it was still available to purchase somewhere. I guess from what you are saying that my doctor would have to buy it? Where is the best place for her to purchase it from?

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:12 pm

Your doc can order Ecnore Pro for her practice - it's a multipatient program, and she can order a copy for you.

The only reason you may want it is so you can analyses the data with James' EPA.

Encore Pro Analyser was written by James Skinner, a member of this forum, and shows the data pickep up by Encore Pro in graphs. Encore Pro puts the data in an SQL database. Encore Viewer does not.

O.

WNJ · Post by **WNJ** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:58 pm

GumbyCT wrote:. . . I wonder why they come out with software revisions then? . . .

Usually for issues related to compatibility for new machines and PC software.

I have Encore Pro 1.5 for my REMstar Auto. That was the current revision 2+ years ago when I got it. Still works fine with my pre-M Series CPAP and Windows XP software.

Since then, Respironics has released the M Series (new release of Encore Pro software for compatibility with new M Series CPAP.)

Later, Microsoft released Windows Vista operating software for PC's (another new release of Encore Pro for compatibility with Vista.)

Nothing to suggest the older release of software wasn't accurate. (Presumably accurate enough for the "professionals" at the DME's/clinics/physicians offices for whom it was intended.)

I doubt Encore Pro is fully as accurate as the equipment in a sleep lab, but I believe it is accurate enough to be VERY useful to users monitoring their own progress.

Wayne

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:59 pm

My opinion:

your doctor is a quack, I'd be finding a new one.

The "data" on those reports doesn't have to be very accurate. If you are NOT having any events there shouldn't be any apnea shown on the report. If you are having LOTS of residual SDB events they will show up on the report. It doesn't matter if there are 23 or a 103 or 403, if the data is off +/- 5 events it doesn't matter.

If you compare one night to the next you should be able to see if the steps you take either improve or make your condition worse.

If the machine is doing its job there will be fewer events shown on the report.

Do you really need a doctor to tell you sleep is improving? Now if you had a report that told you that once a week then there would be no reason to go see the quack.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:27 am

mbrown wrote:I was not suggesting that I wouldn't pay for it. I was asking if it was still available to purchase somewhere. I guess from what you are saying that my doctor would have to buy it? Where is the best place for her to purchase it from?

I think your doc could try Respironics, a DME, or maybe even cpap.com. Since Respironics is limiting sale to doctors, I can't imagine there should be a problem for the doc. to obtains it form any source.

Buy the way, I'm pretty sure snoredog's response is referring to the originator's post, not mbrown's.

O.

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ColinP · Post by **ColinP** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:33 am

GumbyCT wrote:I was told by my VA sleep doc that the Encore Pro software was 100% accurate - I repeat 100% accurate - hmmm I wonder why they come out with software revisions then?

Surely the accuracy comes in with the software, algorithms and sensors on your actual CPAP? All that the software on the PC does is copy the data from the machine and format in a user friendly way, and it cannot affect the accuracy of your data at all.

Colin

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:18 am

GumbyCT wrote:
beneyw wrote:I was more or less told the data can only tell how many hours the machine was used and the rest of the data is not reliable or accurate.
I was told by my VA sleep doc that the Encore Pro software was 100% accurate - I repeat 100% accurate - hmmm I wonder why they come out with software revisions then?

I expect reality lies somewhere in between the two opinions. I am finding myself another sleep doc and suggest you do the same.

Smart Card Data Useless??? That's What I Was Told..

Smart Card Data Useless??? That's What I Was Told..

Re: Smart Card Data Useless??? That's What I Was Told..

Usefulness of data from machines

Re: Smart Card Data Useless??? That's What I Was Told..

Re: Smart Card Data Useless??? That's What I Was Told..

Re: Smart Card Data Useless??? That's What I Was Told..