Why Are People So Stubborn?

This is what it took for me. I was just like your husband, I refused to believe that I had a problem until my wife took a video of me and I saw how bad it really was.
I was told by the masses for years, how badly I snored, but refused to believe it until I saw it for my own eyes.
Unfortunately, this is what it takes for some folks. A good old fashioned kick in the arse!!!

Good idea, Marie. But you're right, he probably wouldn't go. I can just hear him now: "I don't have insurance, so I'm not going to the doctor." But he wouldn't go three years ago when he did have insurance, so---

Maybe after talking with his friend that owns the medical supply place, he'll talk to him and be able to convince him to do something. And then there's also the video idea. If those don't work, I Quit. (No, not cpap, just quit banging my head against a stubborn brick wall that won't budge.)

Pam

Maybe you need to hook your hubby up with folks who have had strokes and/or heart attacks and have lived to tell him about their hardships.

Our stories are almost exact. The only reason why my husband decided to have it done is his heart started acting funny at night and our daughter came up to him a couple of days later and said "Daddy, you quit breathing at night and choke and it keeps me awake because I don't want you to die." He would gasp for air.. and his entire body would "gasp" for breath.

I lay down with him one night and after cleaning my mask (I was sort of worried if he would contaminate my hose or something..but decided to chance it) and I let him use my CPAP machine ("just try it, see how you feel.") He said he couldn't breath. I tinkered with it and upped the pressure. He fell asleep (I kid you not) in five minutes and said he felt really relaxed. I told him that either I was going to buy a CPAP for him and do it myself for him or he better get a sleep study.

I honestly had to beg and b*tch at him for 3 weeks before he gave in... and his insurance (come to find out last week) did not cover any of it... so we are stuck paying off the bill.

I also lied and told him my sleep study was a piece of cake, and they put a couple of wires on you and give you some juice and off you go to sleep. My sleep study was hell for me (because of RLS, not the study itself) and I hated it (I was coming off Mirapex and my legs were twitching like being electrified and I barely got enough sleep study time in) but he reluctantly went and man I am so glad he did... his doc said he has never seen a case so bad with the exception of one... and that if he didn't get on the machine... death would be imminent.

His health? He doesn't close his eyes anymore while driving (I used to scream and yell at him to stop closing his eyes!.. it made my blood pressure nuts) and we finally sleep together after fifteen years. He moves more.. feels better.. no daily migraines. It has improved our relationship and his mood is much better.. he even laughs like he used to.

(I hope I'm not giving you bad advice) But perhaps he can try out your machine. Have him take a hot shower and have him try it and let him relax.. don't know.. about his hygiene or if you are susceptible to lung infections.. so perhaps buying a 3 dollar hose just for him to try out?

I would rather a little mini-experiment then him passing away... and tweaking the pressure a little higher for him? I don't know.. I am not sure how you feel about that.

__

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I have suggested that he use my machine and a mask I don't use anymore to take a nap. He says he will, but never does.

Today, I spoke to his acquaintance who owns a DME place. He did offer to let my husband use one of his loaner machines. But it sounds like a regular cpap since he said he'd set the pressure at 10 and see if he felt any better after a week. Didn't even get a chance to ask if it was data-capable. Guess I didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak. (He also said he could offer me and my husband all cpap stuff at cost. Hmm, might have to take him up on that for me, if nothing else!) If he does it and doesn't feel any better, though, still doesn't mean he doesn't have OSA, which at that point might even be harder to convince him he needs a real sleep study. (I can hear him now: "If I had it, the cpap machine should have made me feel better. Since it didn't, I must not have it.") I didn't feel any better on my treatment for over a month because of mask issues and just getting used to the treatment in general. (In fact, felt worse for the first couple of weeks.) But I certainly appreciate the offer, and hope stubborn husband will relent and take him up on the offer.

A bunch of guys were staying at a house the gentleman owns in another state. (Long and unrelated story.) He said my husband snored so much, he shook the door to his bedroom. He pulled him aside then and talked to him about it.

He did mention something about an at-home sleep study thing that would be available shortly. Did someone talk about that here? Seem to vaguely remember something about it. Does anyone know what that's about?

Thanks, ya'll!

Pam

Pam

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, DME

Kaiser uses at home sleep tests. Medicare will probably approve and pay for at home testing followed by APAP for a twelve-week trial in March, and private insurance may follow. At home testing is not as good as a sleep lab sleep study, but better than nothing. It's great for early detection or in cases where a lab sleep study is not possible (lack of insurance or long wait for lab), or as a screening device before a lab sleep study.

If at home testing is not available or possible, a recording pulse ox and APAP is the next best thing. And even if you have a sleep lab study or home study, an APAP will help you find or check and correct the titrated pressure and a recording pulse ox as follow up will let you know your therapy is working. Is there a way you could get an APAP with data capablity?

One thing to remember about people who so stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that they need to be tested: is it their character (stubborness or intelligence level) or is it sleep apnea (denial stage)? People with sleep apnea are not playing with a full deck, intellectually or emotionally. Their brain is deprived of oxygen, possibly leading to poor judgement, and they are weary from lack of sleep, leading to lack of initiative and the energy to try new things, such as a sleep study or APAP.

Your hubby is lucky to have you offer options to him that may save his life. If he, in his impaired condition, refuses those options through his own ignorance and prejudice, remember that it's HIS choice, not your fault or responsibility.

If he can get involved and participate on his own behalf, he has a much better chance of staying healthy. Has he read the top article in the light bulb/our collective wisdom by Dr. Bandage about getting mugged each night, and the article about evaluating your sleep/symptoms?

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): medicare, APAP

Excuse me asking Weary One, and of course I don't expect you to reply if you don't want to, but is your husband a heavy drinker?

Just wondering because of the pancreatitis, the snoring and the not wanting to spend money on medical stuff.

If there is a drink problem, that probably needs to be addressed before any other problems.

Sorry if I'm being too intrusive here.

regards

Di

Moby, no problem. He rarely drinks. After his pancreatitis incident, the doctors said he needed to cut way back on his fat intake. Guess how long that lasted?

Mile High Sleeper, it could be partly the OSA affecting his judgment, but he's always had a heavy stubborn streak. He's always had this attitude about problems that he doesn't want to deal with---if he ignores it long enough, it'll go away. (That's what he was doing with that huge hospital bill I mentioned earlier, and he ended up getting sued. So I guess that one didn't go away.)

Told him about the DME-owner he knows that offered him the loaner machine for a week. Told him it was up to him to get in touch with the guy and work it out. He kinda shrugged his shoulders and changed the subject. (I really don't think he believed me when I said I was going to call the guy.)

Other than doing a video on him (told him about the OSA videos on youtube, and that I should put him on there), not much else I can do.

Pam

My ex-boyfriend complained of my snoring and that I stopped breathing. I rolled my eyes.

Two years later, my mother and I took a trip together. After one night she refused to share a room with me again. Unfortunately, two rooms weren't always available, and the best we could do was some couching on the pullout in the suite. We were both so sleep-deprived on that trip, we spent most of Xmas napping. The in-laws weren't real happy with us.

When we got back, she told me I really needed to look into a cpap. She said her friend had got one, and was so happy with the improvement it made for her. I was so miserable and exhausted, I called the doc and scheduled an appointment.

Doc's been nagging me for years to lose weight, bring down my cholesterol, etc. etc. Doc was MOST HAPPY to schedule me for a sleep study.

So, that's MY story. Refuse to sleep with the offender. See if that helps.

LOL,
Babs

Hi, Babs, Been there, doing that---haven't slept in the same ROOM with him for over 10 years (with one or two exceptions here and there). We had to share a motel room once last year. He was in one bed, I was in the other. My pap machine was on, AND a sound machine (white noise), AND I was wearing ear plugs, and it still drove me crazy. I think I slept about two hours that night, and not two hours straight, either.

He also (obviously) doesn't really have a regular physician, so I can't call up and have a nice chat to see if he/she would insist on it a study of some type.

I would love this DME guy's loaner machine to be a data-capable APAP, but I doubt it will be that high-end of a machine.

Pam

Rats....

Well, do what my Mom did to me - Tell him he has to go get his own hotel room, AND pay for it!

GOOD LUCK!
Barbara

Pam,
I think a pulse ox measurement is a better idea than any cpap loaner. Unlike a loaner machine, which has to work its magic to convince your husband, all a pulse oxygen measurement does is report his oxygen saturation. That won't take a month of just getting used to it.

At some point, some of us are unfortunate to run into people who are being absolutely irrational - it is always difficult, and more so when they are our loved ones. Because we really want to convice them. Eventually, the person, in this case your husband, avoids conflicted feelings by dividing them between himself and the other person - so the more you take on the role of "please treat you sleep apnea" the more he can avoid it - since you're taking the reponsibility.

Listen to Gerald and your girlfriend, and remember: this is a grown man stuck in the "No mommy I don't wanna and I won't so there!" stage of life, turning the whole of reality to the mommy he's frustrating.

Wearyone on another thread wrote:Don't know if this could be a factor, but after being off all caffeine for three months, I started back again about halfway into my mother-in-laws week-long visit!

If that's what she did to you in 3 days, what did growing up in her presence do to him?

Let go. You can't protect him from himself, you can't make him grow up, and he will only feel things are up to him if he really senses you believe they are. He will never do anything about his sleep apnea as long as he feels there's a whiff of a hint that it means he is doing what you told him to do. It will be a capitulation he can't handle. It's a case of "give me liberty or give me death". You think it's his health, he knows it's his sense of self at issue.

Do what you can to realize that your husband is and independent, competent grown up. And do everything you can to make yourself feel and believe that you do not depend on him. Nor does he depend on you. If he decides to ruin his own life, there's nothing you can do about it.

Gerald wrote:Don't paddle out into the deep water with someone who refuses to learn how to swim. A person like that will drown you.

Keep on taking your own swimming lessons, and make sure he knows he's on his own.

O.

Everyone has been so helpful with suggestions and advice. You'll never know how much I appreciate it.

Yeah, the MIL visit was a trip. I keep telling my SIL we should write a book on the family, but dynamics and dysfunction are so unreal, it would have to be presented as fiction! (She's "fortunate" enough to live in the same city as the rest of his family. We both wonder why she's still sane.)

Ozij and Gerald, you are both right. As of today, I'll start swimming on my own. I'll let him know I've done all I can do to convince him of the seriousness of the situation, the seriousness of not having health insurance, and I'll not say another word. I've given him more than enough help and support, so now it's his responsibility to move forward with it, or not.

If he ever takes on that responsibility, I'll make sure to let you all know!

Pam