A bit hopeless (updated)...

Update:

I'm now using a Quattro medium. I don't feel leak like I used to BUT I just feel awful in the morning. As I'm writing this, it's been my worst morning since I'm on CPAP. The mask barely leaks but I feel like trash. Just using my LCD screen, I can see my AHI going up since switching mask. It's a real bummer, especially with Christmas coming around the corner and the fact that I won't see my DME until the 26th-27th... I'll try to loosen up the straps a little.

Also, I woke up last night sleeping on my belly with my mask on!! I was face first in my pillow! It never happened (or I wasn't concious about it) when I had my other face masks. I only remember going on my side and then getting wake up by the leaks.

This is definitely not a good day...

Original first post:

I'm in my second week of treatment and although my overall quality of life has improved, I'm still having huge leaks from my FF mask. Enough to ring my machine's leak detector. This morning I had the huge red marks since last night I had to strap the mask so tight or else I would have leakage from just moving my head on my own pillow. I've now tried the CF2 Medium, CF2 Large and Quattro Large and the best one (for my face) was the CF2 Medium but I'm starting to be discouraged about the whole process. Yesterday, I was very cranky about it, even though I had an ok night (woke up at 8:30 am, was feeling sleepy but not foggy like before the therapy)

I've read about the sillicone putty thing but I'll be honest, I don't know how to use it to seal my mask. I've read about making a line with them, but then how do you put it on the mask? It's hard to explain just by writing about it. If it's possible I would like to have a pic of someone who has done it (PM or in this thread). I would very much appreciate it.

This whole leaking thing is hard for me, mostly because I've waited since July to get a machine and now it seems that I will have to spend another few weeks to get it properly and it starts getting on my nerves.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Nick

Nick, you've come the the right place to get some help. Though I've been on cpap for years I am brand new to the Quattro (last night was my first try) so I don't have a lot to say about your specific questions. You'll be surprised at the amount of good help and advice you'll get on the forum. Keep at your therapy--it's very common and easy to become discouraged. Hang in there and you'll get the therapy figured out. Oxygen desaturation is not a good thing--therapy is definitely worth the time, effort, hassle, and even discouragement.

Interesting that you've tried the Quattro Large when the ComfortFull Large AND the ComfortFull Medium didn't work for you. My understanding is that the Quattro tends to run large so unless you just plain didn't like the Quattro at all, perhaps going to a smaller size Quattro would work for you. I understand that the Ultra Mirage FF tends to run larger than the Quattro.

Aside from having a fully data capable xPAP set at the proper pressure for you the MASK fit and comfort is THE key to xPAP success. In fact we can do better w/the pressure a little "off" IF we have a PROPER and COMFORTABLE fitting mask than we can with the "perfect" pressure and an ill-fitting, uncomfortable mask. Maybe you should consider trying the ComfortFull Small since the Medium has worked best for you but still left you w/large leaks?

The Mack's original Silicone Ear Plugs are NOT that expensive. Have you at least bought a pack and tried playing around w/it as best you can given the instructions posted in the forum?? I bought some at Rite-Aid just to try.

NickD25 wrote:I'm in my second week of treatment and although my overall quality of life has improved, I'm still having huge leaks from my FF mask. Enough to ring my machine's leak detector. This morning I had the huge red marks since last night I had to strap the mask so tight or else I would have leakage from just moving my head on my own pillow. I've now tried the CF2 Medium, CF2 Large and Quattro Large and the best one (for my face) was the CF2 Medium but I'm starting to be discouraged about the whole process. Yesterday, I was very cranky about it, even though I had an ok night (woke up at 8:30 am, was feeling sleepy but not foggy like before the therapy)

I've read about the sillicone putty thing but I'll be honest, I don't know how to use it to seal my mask. I've read about making a line with them, but then how do you put it on the mask? It's hard to explain just by writing about it. If it's possible I would like to have a pic of someone who has done it (PM or in this thread). I would very much appreciate it.

This whole leaking thing is hard for me, mostly because I've waited since July to get a machine and now it seems that I will have to spend another few weeks to get it properly and it starts getting on my nerves.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Nick

You're going the WRONG WAY with the tension! They tend to leak MORE when you tighten them too much.
The seals of these masks (like the UMFF and Quattro) need to expand with the interior pressure from the air to get a decent seal. When you tighten them down, it isn't capable of expanding and sealing.
With the UMFF and Quattro, put the forehead piece in the full, upright position.....back off all the tension on the top straps and put whatever tension on the bottom straps.....just enough to keep it against your face. Takes a bit of tweaking, but if you have the right size and get the tension "right", it won't cause any sores.
Are you also aware that the Quattro has leakage from a defect in the elbow in the front of the mask? It's been discussed at great lengths frequently on the forum. You need to wrap Teflon plumber's pipe tape around BOTH ends of the elbow (and reassemble). Otherwise it feels (and sounds) like it's leaking everywhere from the front of the mask.

Den

Someone called or e-mailed Resmed about the elbow leak problem and was told by Resmed that it was a known defect in some Quattros and that they should return it to their local DME for replacement of the defective elbow.

Slinky wrote:Interesting that you've tried the Quattro Large when the ComfortFull Large AND the ComfortFull Medium didn't work for you. My understanding is that the Quattro tends to run large so unless you just plain didn't like the Quattro at all, perhaps going to a smaller size Quattro would work for you. I understand that the Ultra Mirage FF tends to run larger than the Quattro.

Aside from having a fully data capable xPAP set at the proper pressure for you the MASK fit and comfort is THE key to xPAP success. In fact we can do better w/the pressure a little "off" IF we have a PROPER and COMFORTABLE fitting mask than we can with the "perfect" pressure and an ill-fitting, uncomfortable mask. Maybe you should consider trying the ComfortFull Small since the Medium has worked best for you but still left you w/large leaks?

The Mack's original Silicone Ear Plugs are NOT that expensive. Have you at least bought a pack and tried playing around w/it as best you can given the instructions posted in the forum?? I bought some at Rite-Aid just to try.

Other way around, Slinky. The same-size Quattro seems to feel a larger than the UMFF.

Also, the "Comfortfull 2" mask wouldn't work worth a darn for me. Was the most uncomfortable of the three that I've used and it felt like it leaked like a sieve. And, hurt my chin at my gumline.


Den

Slinky wrote:Someone called or e-mailed Resmed about the elbow leak problem and was told by Resmed that it was a known defect in some Quattros and that they should return it to their local DME for replacement of the defective elbow.

Personally, I've got more faith in the Teflon tape doing a better job of fixing it than ResMed.

Den

@SleepGuy:

I wholehearthly agree with you but I had just went back to school last August and had to cancel two semesters because of apnea. Now it's a good thing that they found it early. And I understand it takes time, it's more the sheer frustration of having to deal with a heavy leaking mask.

@Slinky

Here's the deal about the masks. I started with a CF2 medium but had some leaks from my mouth because the width of my lips is pretty borderline for a medium. Went back to the DME and they lend me a CF2 large and a Quattro to test for the week. So far, it's been worst than my CF2 medium. So this is why I got larger masks. They did start with a medium . I've read about the sillicone ear plugs but I'm just having a hard time figuring how to put them. I know, it sounds dumb.

@Wulfman:

I did notice the elbow leak but I just thought it was supposed to be there and it's not what bothered me.

@Everyone:

Here's my little routine when I go to sleep.

- I take my mask and put it on with the straps pretty loose
- I start the machine at 17 and then I make the adjustment
- When I feel everything's fine, I hit ramp (which is set at 10) and then fall asleep

The problem arise when I move in my sleep. For example, last night I woke up to find out that the bottom of the CF2 was leaking more than it should. The night before, I switched between the Quattro and the CF2 during the night because there was a lot of leak under my lips or on the side. And neither masks helped.

That's the real problem, I can fit a "comfortable & minimum leak" headgear setting but as soon as I move in my sleep, it messes up what I've done.

Thanks

Here is a post that helped me figure thia out

BreatheEasy



Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Southeast Florida
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: Sealing leaks with Mack's ear plug material Delete Spam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you to everyone who answered my plea. I got the plugs, took one and pulled in in half. Then I took each half and rolled it into a rope (not too thin). I took each rope, flattened it a bit, and attached it to the soft flap of the mask pillow, starting at the nose and down each side from there. I rolled two more ropes, flattened them, and attached them in the flap area that would contact each side of my mouth.

I put the mask on. It felt very comfortable and secure. Last night it worked like a charm. I wasn't aware of any of the nose and side leakage that was driving me batty the previous nights. The bridge of my nose isn't sore this morning and I feel great! I use the EncoreViewer software and just glanced at it this morning. Everything looked a lot calmer. I won't get a chance to study the results until later today.

I don't know if I applied the substance as I should have but what I did worked for me. Thank you all, again.

BreathEasy

I have had great luck with this method the past three nights. My highest Leak rate was .02 l/hr for the night. Hope this helps.

NickD25 wrote:@SleepGuy:

I wholehearthly agree with you but I had just went back to school last August and had to cancel two semesters because of apnea. Now it's a good thing that they found it early. And I understand it takes time, it's more the sheer frustration of having to deal with a heavy leaking mask.

@Slinky

Here's the deal about the masks. I started with a CF2 medium but had some leaks from my mouth because the width of my lips is pretty borderline for a medium. Went back to the DME and they lend me a CF2 large and a Quattro to test for the week. So far, it's been worst than my CF2 medium. So this is why I got larger masks. They did start with a medium . I've read about the sillicone ear plugs but I'm just having a hard time figuring how to put them. I know, it sounds dumb.

@Wulfman:

I did notice the elbow leak but I just thought it was supposed to be there and it's not what bothered me.

@Everyone:

Here's my little routine when I go to sleep.

- I take my mask and put it on with the straps pretty loose
- I start the machine at 17 and then I make the adjustment
- When I feel everything's fine, I hit ramp (which is set at 10) and then fall asleep

The problem arise when I move in my sleep. For example, last night I woke up to find out that the bottom of the CF2 was leaking more than it should. The night before, I switched between the Quattro and the CF2 during the night because there was a lot of leak under my lips or on the side. And neither masks helped.

That's the real problem, I can fit a "comfortable & minimum leak" headgear setting but as soon as I move in my sleep, it messes up what I've done.

Thanks

Don't move! Problem solved.

Are you a back or side sleeper?

Den

Nick,

If the above post isn't enough, I can post pics of how I do my Quattro with silicone putty. It would take me about 1/2 hour to get photo, upload and size ... and am about to hit the sack. Just let me know if you'd like me to do that and I can post it tomorrow am....

Here's a link to my previous post with pics showing how to do silicone putty to protect the bridge of my nose

viewtopic.php?p=228349&sid=5863e3677f73 ... 06ce9d9d8a

I put the silicone putty "ring" just next the the open edge of the cushion.

Mindy

Mindy, I would really appreciate it. I have a better idea but I'm more of a visual person so seeing it would be better. Btw, the padacheek is nice. Takes a bit the "hospital" feeling to the mask and surely makes it comfortable for the forehead. I woke up on Friday morning with a nice buckle like imprint on mine because I didn't thought about it

Wulfman: Alright, I'll ask to be put in a full body cast so I won't be able to move at all.
I'm a back and a belly sleeper. I could never really sleep well on my side. I've seen the "true" full face mask on cpap.com (the one that covers your whole face) and I'm wondering if it could work. The problem is that my DME told me there's only 3 FF masks available in Canada. Now, I know that I can get anything from US sites but at ~$150 a mask with a $40 S&H + $20-30 insurance, it's too much just to try a mask, even with a refund of my purchase, I just spend $60-70 just to try it. Anyway, I'm scheduled to have a card scan next week. Tonight, I'll use the Quattro. I've recheck ResMed instructions along with yours and tried it a little laying on my bed and it was comfortable. I'll let you know tomorrow.

And a quick question, the defect that you are talking about on the Quattro elbow is the two small holes right? I've notice that it had less leak when I was putting my fingers on them, but then again, maybe it's because I'm slightly pressing the mask.

What about your pillow? Could that be messing things up? I'm a side sleeper and I had to get a different pillow. Every time I moved, my old pillow messed up my mask. I switched to a 'memory foam' pillow and I sleep at the very edge of it, so my mask hangs off the edge and stays more stable.

NickD25 wrote:Mindy, I would really appreciate it. I have a better idea but I'm more of a visual person so seeing it would be better. Btw, the padacheek is nice. Takes a bit the "hospital" feeling to the mask and surely makes it comfortable for the forehead. I woke up on Friday morning with a nice buckle like imprint on mine because I didn't thought about it

Wulfman: Alright, I'll ask to be put in a full body cast so I won't be able to move at all.
I'm a back and a belly sleeper. I could never really sleep well on my side. I've seen the "true" full face mask on cpap.com (the one that covers your whole face) and I'm wondering if it could work. The problem is that my DME told me there's only 3 FF masks available in Canada. Now, I know that I can get anything from US sites but at ~$150 a mask with a $40 S&H + $20-30 insurance, it's too much just to try a mask, even with a refund of my purchase, I just spend $60-70 just to try it. Anyway, I'm scheduled to have a card scan next week. Tonight, I'll use the Quattro. I've recheck ResMed instructions along with yours and tried it a little laying on my bed and it was comfortable. I'll let you know tomorrow.

And a quick question, the defect that you are talking about on the Quattro elbow is the two small holes right? I've notice that it had less leak when I was putting my fingers on them, but then again, maybe it's because I'm slightly pressing the mask.

If you're talking about the wedge-shaped holes in the top of the elbow....No.
The defect is actually where the elbow fits into the front of the mask (round hole) and the other end that goes into the grey hose connector. You can pop the elbow out of the front of the mask and pull the grey hose connector off the other end and then wrap Teflon tape around both ends and then put them back together.
The wedge-shaped holes on top of the elbow should seal when the air blows the little flapper up against them.

I don't know what to tell you about the sleep position.....back is bad and belly might be, too.

Den

Ri wrote:What about your pillow? Could that be messing things up? I'm a side sleeper and I had to get a different pillow. Every time I moved, my old pillow messed up my mask. I switched to a 'memory foam' pillow and I sleep at the very edge of it, so my mask hangs off the edge and stays more stable.

It's an interesting remark and I'll try another one. I changed my whole bed back in November and also bought new pillows but I still have some old ones. Didn't thought about it. Thanks!