A thought about taping, and all those dire warnings

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:09 am

How come its OK (and approved fo use by the FDA) to put plugs in your nostrils, and use a mouth only mask - if we were to trust some of our guests it is so dangerous to put a mask on your nose, and a tape (with pull off flaps !) on your mouth?

OK, ripping off the tape may demand some consciousness that isn't necessary for dropping your mouth open (suppose you have a stroke, or a heart attack, and are lying there unconscious with you mouth taped and the electricity goes off.... and nobody lives with you to see what happened) but otherwise?

Isn't someone getting some wires crossed?

O.

gasparama · Post by **gasparama** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:57 am

Ozij, Your post is quite cleaver and too the point.

Although this is a little bit out of Bible context, this reminds me of a verse in Proverbs that says that a person may be afraid to come out of his home because there could be a lion in the street. In other words, we're getting nothing done because there is an almost impossible chance of disaster.

I'm taping and loving it. Even my sleep doc didn't argue with me after his first reading of my smartcard. The danger to my heart is much greater that the possibility of danger from taping.

Jane

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:10 am

I think one of the biggest arguments against taping is the risk of vomiting while tape is on - could choke to death. However, if tape is very easy to yank off, I don't know if there's still any risk or not.

Do we have anyone with medical training on the board who can address that issue?

Mindy

Kharris · Post by **Kharris** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:42 am

I have been taping for about 2 weeks, been on CPAP for almost 2
months. I use a single strip and extend it about an inch on each end.
the very first thing I tested was if I could open my mouth WITHOUT
removing the tape.
YES, unless I am putting the tape on in multiple layers I can open my mouth with a hard enough drop of my lower jaw. It hurts, and I won't
be doing it for fun, but I can do it. And knowing I can get my mouth open
anytime I really need to takes away any fear of choking or suffocating.
It takes some expirimenting with tape application, and different types of
tape. But taping works very well for me, and I am not afraid to do it
every night.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:17 am

I don't tape because I was able to train myself not to mouth leak. I suppose my desire to keep my full beard provided an added incentive to train myself?

If I had not been able to train myself (and many cannot), I would first try my absolute best to get a full face mask to fit comfortable and leak-free (again some just cannot). If a chinstrap did not work (and many do not) and my only option left was to tape, I'm pretty sure I would take that risk over the risk of inadequate treatment of my OSA (untreated -- over 100 AHI w/ 60% O2 desats). So each has to determine what their own capability(s) for controling mouth leaks are and what risks they are willing to take re: PAP treatment.

How many times does a person vomit while asleep after all? I have only done it twice in my life and that was because I literally chugged a bottle of whiskey then passed out when I was young and very stupid ... the Jack Daniels was pretty stupid but since my 19th birthday, I never drank another drop of whiskey after the bottle of Wild Turkey BTW- I thought I was going to die from the hangovers rather than the vomit.

I think the health pros are very myopic in the treatment of our condition and it is so sad because because I feel the trend for the number of people with our condition will continue to rise as baby boomers age and the consequences of the relatively recent obesity epidemic began to take effect.

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:21 am

Very eloquent post, DreamStalker. You make some excellent points

Mindy

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:27 am

It took me about 8 months to decide to try taping - and I started out standing, in full day light, ooking at myself in the mirror. And then I discovered how simple it was, and my fear vanished.... I tape almost every night - its about 2 years or so now - and don't love the taping, its the sleep that I get with it that I love.

I personally do not fear not being able to rip off the tape if necessary - its like kharris says:

YES, unless I am putting the tape on in multiple layers I can open my mouth with a hard enough drop of my lower jaw. It hurts, and I won't
be doing it for fun, but I can do it.

I asume much of the panic surrounding it has to do with the fact that in the days before cpap, the only kind on of mouthtaping done was accompanied by tying a person's arms, and making sure the tape was difficult to remove.

I rarely vomit - once in a decade or more - however I trust my body, brain or whatever it is when its says "don't tape tonight".

Mindy, I've asked about medical info more than once - never got it yet - and I'm still waiting... The comparison with the mouth mask just dawned on me today...

O.

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oceanpearl · Post by **oceanpearl** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:46 am

Anyone try the Lip Seal from here??
http://www.sleepzone.com.au/

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:56 am

oceanpearl wrote:Anyone try the Lip Seal from here??
http://www.sleepzone.com.au/

Yes, I did and didn't like it at all. Couldn't wear it all night. If I remember correctly the plastic had a horrible taste/smell. Was bad enough that I tossed it.

Mindy

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:03 am

I tried the polident strips thing last night because the only issue I have now is an erratic leak rate. It worked great. My leak line looked really good except for a few bumps where I think the nasal pillows were not sealing properly. I think I need to try a smaller size.

Anyway. I have never thrown up in my sleep. I can count the number of times on one hand that I have ever thrown up in the first place.

jasper · Post by **jasper** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:35 am

I can understand why medical professionals advise against mouth taping. Yes, there is the possiblity of aspiration, and allowing for our litigious society, that's the safest answer. No, I'm not a doctor, and yes, I do tape occasionally.

Dreamstalker puts it best. You need to consider all of the ramifications of both taping and not taping. We've heard lots of advice to stop the taping, but I haven't heard a solid, cogent argument from the medical community. like Dreamstalker puts forth. If FF masks, chin straps, training yourself to nose breathe etc. don't work, what is the answer? I don't think you can just say "accept a high AHI and low sat". Makes no sense.

Good post Dreamstalker...

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:58 am

ozij wrote:

How come its OK (and approved fo use by the FDA) to put plugs in your nostrils, and use a mouth only mask - if we were to trust some of our guests it is so dangerous to put a mask on your nose, and a tape (with pull off flaps !) on your mouth?

OK, ripping off the tape may demand some consciousness that isn't necessary for dropping your mouth open (suppose you have a stroke, or a heart attack, and are lying there unconscious with you mouth taped and the electricity goes off.... and nobody lives with you to see what happened) but otherwise?

Isn't someone getting some wires crossed?

O.

Most likely the size of the kickback to the FDA panel was greater than simple medical tape.

Actually it doesn't require much of a conscious effort to remove tape from your mouth, when you cannot breathe and your fight or flight response kicks in natural tendency is to remove anything covering your mouth, that includes tape or ripping a mask off straps and all. Use of a quick-removal "flap" is smart as it makes grabbing a hold of that tape much easier.

If you are experiencing a heart attack or stroke having tape on your mouth won't matter to you either. Depending on the severity of the stroke, you may wish to leave that tape in place. Stroke usually nails you on one side or the other depending on which side of the brain is effected, it is rare for a stroke to impact both sides, when it does it is usually fatal so again taping wouldn't matter.

It is why I take aspirin (325mg Ecotrin) every night before bed and have been doing so for the past 7+ years.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:21 am

If you do decide to tape, make sure you don't get carried away and end up like this

Raybur_55 · Post by **Raybur_55** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:27 am

Very funny DreamStalker, I almost looked like that my first night with VetRap!

Mindy, what tape do you use? I seriously need to use something, but I have very sensitive skin.

Thanks,
Rae

jasper · Post by **jasper** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:19 pm

LOL DS...

See what happens when they tell you not to tape your mouth? They should have also said, and not the nose, chin, forehead, ears etc. etc.

Some people really need more explicit directions

A thought about taping, and all those dire warnings

A thought about taping, and all those dire warnings

Re: A thought about taping, and all those dire warnings

taping