Sleep study @12 AHI, but no cpap needed - Can this be right?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
RosemaryB
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Sleep study @12 AHI, but no cpap needed - Can this be right?

Post by RosemaryB » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:46 pm

The good news is, another family member had a sleep study. The bad news is that I'm not sure they are doing a very good job . Although he had an AHI of over 12, they are not recommending a titration study nor are they recommending autopap. They basically told him that he's fine and can just go home now.

I've suggested he get his full sleep study and said I'll help him understand it. I said he may want to seek a second opinion once we both understand what is going on in the actual study.

Here are some details:

AHI 12.1
74 hypopneas, 1 mixed apnea
5 hours total sleep
33 awakenings with a total time awake after sleep onset of 120.0 minutes
6.8% of the time in supine sleep
The OSA was exacerbated to an extreme degree in supine sleep, but since the sample is so small, the AHI may be underestimated or overestimated.
2% of the time was spent with oxygen desats below 90%

Abnormal sleep architecture was seen as likely due to respiratory events and first night effect

I'd appreciate any comments about this study. It seems odd to me that at an AHI of over 12, they would just send him home with an A-OK diagnosis.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): news, AHI
- Rose

Thread on how I overcame aerophagia
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t3383 ... hagia.html

Thread on my TAP III experience
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t3705 ... ges--.html

User avatar
Perchancetodream
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:41 pm
Location: 29 Palms, CA

Post by Perchancetodream » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:47 pm

Has he seen his doctor? When you say "they would just send him home," are you talking about the sleep lab?

The clinic that did our tests did not tell us anything about the results, only that our doctor's office would be in touch. It is up to the doctor to prescribe the therapy (or lack thereof) not the clinic.

If it were me, and my doctor refused to prescribe treatment, I would want to know why.

Susan
"If space is really a vacuum, who changes the bag?" George Carlin

User avatar
RosemaryB
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Post by RosemaryB » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:55 pm

Perchancetodream wrote:Has he seen his doctor? When you say "they would just send him home," are you talking about the sleep lab?

The clinic that did our tests did not tell us anything about the results, only that our doctor's office would be in touch. It is up to the doctor to prescribe the therapy (or lack thereof) not the clinic.

If it were me, and my doctor refused to prescribe treatment, I would want to know why.

Susan
That was the doctor's opinion, but I'm not sure if it was the sleep doc or his GP. That's why I suggested that he get his sleep study and why I posted here, so I can find out more, then educate him so he can question his doctor or perhaps get a new one! If he lived in town here, I'd send him to my doctor who understand the importance of OSA.
- Rose

Thread on how I overcame aerophagia
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t3383 ... hagia.html

Thread on my TAP III experience
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t3705 ... ges--.html

jules
Posts: 3304
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:51 pm

Post by jules » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:07 pm

you might wish to check the insurance criteria -

some require 15 AHI to pay for a cpap I believe

who is running the treatment - the insurance or the doc?

is the person willing to pay for machine and titration OOP?


User avatar
ozij
Posts: 10437
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Post by ozij » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:12 pm

Susan is making a lot of sense.
In addition

The lab may be using these guidelines, and going only by the numbers, however the guidelines are very clear about other domains being relevant as well:
http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summar ... xl=999#s23
AHI greater than 15 with either polysomnography or in-home unattended sleep test, or
AHI greater than 10 using an in-home unattended sleep test with documented symptoms of OSAHS, or documented hypertension, ischemic heart disease, or history of stroke, or
AHI greater than 5 by polysomnography when accompanied by symptoms of OSAHS, impaired cognition, mood disorders or insomnia, or documented hypertension, ischemic heart disease, or history of stroke.
(my emphasis ...)
The following are defined -same source - as signs and symptoms of OSA
The following signs and symptoms have been found by population studies employing logistic regression analysis to suggest significant risk for OSAHS:

Awakening with choking
Hypertension
Intense snoring
Large neck circumference
Male gender or postmenopausal females
Obesity
Reported apneas or choking by sleep partner
Resistant hypertension and/or atrial fibrillation
Daytime sleepiness*, especially with impairment of driving
*Sleepiness can be quantified with the Epworth Sleepiness Scale (see Appendix A in the original guideline document). A high score correlates with the level of sleepiness; however, a low score does not rule out the presence of daytime sleepiness.
(my emphasis)

This comment is important:
Diagnosis of OSAHS?
Key Points:

The diagnostic definition of OSAHS is affected by the presence of signs and symptoms of disease.
The definition of apnea and hypopnea and their correlation with morbidity and mortality has received considerable attention and has been recently well summarized. The guideline developers believe that adoption of a standard consensus definition of apnea and hypopnea is essential to uniformity in diagnosis and treatment:

Apnea is defined as a cessation of airflow for at least 10 seconds. The event is obstructive if during apnea there is effort to breathe.
Hypopnea is defined as an abnormal respiratory event lasting at least 10 seconds with at least a 30% reduction in thoracoabdominal movement or airflow as compared to baseline, and with at least a 4% oxygen desaturation.
Using these definitions, a diagnosis of OSAHS can be confidently made when testing shows that the average number of episodes of apnea and hypopnea per hour of sleep, called the Apnea-Hypopnea Index (AHI), is:

AHI greater than 15 with either polysomnography or in-home unattended sleep test, or
AHI greater than 10 using an in-home unattended sleep test with documented symptoms of OSAHS, or documented hypertension, ischemic heart disease, or history of stroke, or
AHI greater than 5 by polysomnography when accompanied by symptoms of OSAHS, impaired cognition, mood disorders or insomnia, or documented hypertension, ischemic heart disease, or history of stroke.For patients with symptoms suggestive of OSAHS and negative initial sleep tests, further diagnostic testing may be needed to determine the underlying cause of the symptoms, and referral to an accredited sleep center or sleep specialist is recommended.

It should be noted that these standards specifically relate to measurements made during full polysomnography with a denominator of hours of sleep. Although there are not yet well developed efficacy studies, in the opinion of the panel, when using a cardiorespiratory monitor, the lower limit of normal for the AHI should be 10 when combined with symptoms of OSAHS, using the same criteria for apnea and hypopnea specified above.
my emphasis

Your relative may also want to know the following.
The severity of OSAHS is determined by symptoms, frequency of obstructions, and degree of desaturation.
The severity of the OSAHS is determined by the most severe rating of three domains: sleepiness, respiratory disturbance (AHI), and gas exchange abnormalities (minimum and mean oxygen saturation). The following can serve as a guide:

Sleepiness:
Mild: Describes sleepiness present only when sedentary or when little attention is required, and may not be present every day. Such sleepiness produces only minor impairment of social or occupational function. As a guide, an Epworth Sleepiness Scale result might be less than 12.
Moderate: Describes daily sleepiness that occurs when minimally active and a moderate degree of attention (e.g., driving, attending meetings or movies). As a guide, an Epworth Sleepiness Scale result might be 13 to 17.
Severe: Describes daily sleepiness during active tasks or tasks that require significant attention. Examples might include driving, conversation, eating or walking, and usually sleepiness produces marked impairment of social or occupational function. As a guide, an Epworth Sleepiness Scale result might be 18 to 24.
(See Appendix A, "The Epworth Sleepiness Scale" in the original guideline document).

Gas exchange abnormalities:
Mild: Mean oxygen saturation remains greater than or equal to 90% and minimum remains greater than or equal to 85%.
Moderate: Mean oxygen saturation greater than or equal to 90% and minimum oxygen saturation greater than or equal to 70%.
Severe: Mean oxygen saturation less than 90%, or minimum oxygen saturation less than 70%.

Respiratory Disturbance:
Mild: AHI 6 to 20
Moderate: AHI 21 to 40
Severe: AHI greater than 40

The full summary is here:
http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summar ... tring=#s23

O.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): Awakening, AHI, Hypopnea

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Machine: Resmed AirSense10 for Her with Climateline heated hose ; alternating masks.
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Good advice is compromised by missing data
Forum member Dog Slobber Nov. 2023

User avatar
RosemaryB
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Post by RosemaryB » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:35 pm

Thank you for the great reference ozij! I will download the information to read and for future reference. It is enlightening to see all of that, and thanks for the guided tour to help me get started, too. I believe that he has some of the conditions listed and I will check those with him.

I forgot to mention that the doctor's report gave him an ICSD DIAGNOSIS: Obstructive Sleep Apnea Syndrome [327.23]. Sorry I didn't mention that earlier. Perhaps that's enough to get more testing, particularly with more supine sleeping during the test.

Susan, I do think that he should talk with the doctor who just sent him home saying he didn't need treatment. I'm going to contact him to find out more details. He did get the doctor's report (because I told him this would be a good idea) but not the whole sleep study. He needs to find out more details of the doctor's reasoning. It may be that his doc is just a GP and my relative kind of pushed for the sleep study, but the doc isn't knowledgeable about it. Or maybe there's some other reason.

About the finances. I think that he would be able to afford a machine if he thought he needed it, but doubt if he could also afford a study. I'm thinking using an autopap home study might be the way to do titration for him.

Thanks for all the helpful information!

- Rose

Thread on how I overcame aerophagia
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t3383 ... hagia.html

Thread on my TAP III experience
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t3705 ... ges--.html

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 10437
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Post by ozij » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:40 pm

There's even a reference to home titration with an auto as well in that document - may help convice the GP to write an Rx as it.

O.


_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Machine: Resmed AirSense10 for Her with Climateline heated hose ; alternating masks.
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Good advice is compromised by missing data
Forum member Dog Slobber Nov. 2023