Resmed S8 II

See the brochure on the new S8 Autoset Spirit II here....

http://www.resmed.com/en-uk/products/fl ... u=products

"S8 AutoSet Spirit II is the latest APAP device in ResMed’s S8™ series, and introduces Easy-Breathe Technology™, ResMed’s revolutionary new therapy platform.

Breathe easy with Easy-Breathe Technology

Easy-Breathe Technology is ResMed’s patented pneumatic system that delivers greater patient comfort and device quality. Powered by a unique low-inertia, dual-stage motor that rotates at dramatically lower speeds than motors in traditional devices, this technology delivers whisper-quiet comfort and unprecedented pressure stability."

Cheers,

Bill

Thanks Bill for info. At least now there is another APAP that's provide pressure relief on exhale. It is quieter according to product info 25dB vs 31dB (M Series AFlex). May consider purchasing it for backup or future replacement.

GreenIce wrote:At least now there is another APAP that's provide pressure relief on exhale.

I'm not sure that's what it's saying. I didn't see anything specifically in the description of "Easy-Breathe" technology about providing pressure relief on exhale but it may be that the "low inertia, dual stage motor" might slow down some when a person breathes out.

Sounded to me as if the new motor was being touted more for being quieter than before. Not because of exhalation pressure relief although that might happen just a leeetle depending on how forcefully a person breathes out.

Certainly doesn't sound anything like the kind of exhalation pressure relief a person would get from either Respironics' C-Flex, A-Flex, or Bi-Flex. Or from resmed's own "EPR" in cpap. I think if "Easy-Breathe" technology were more than just a quieter motor, they'd have made "pressure relief on exhalation" a major blurb,

Whoops ! I got it wrong.

Thanks for pointing out RG.

GreenIce wrote:Whoops ! I got it wrong.

Thanks for pointing out RG.

You didn't necessarily get it wrong. The new motor might back off a little when an exhalation changes the airflow. Might be easier. Dunno.

I'm just used to seeing "comfy" sounding names for all this cpap stuff from all the manufacturers, when what they do might not be at all what the name sounds like.

Like the "Comfort" series of masks from Respironics, most of which were anything but.

I'd have to feel a LOT of exhalation relief before I'd think that "Easy-Breathe" really meant breathing out felt easy on cpap.

From what I read from the .pdf,s, It has a different motor and or controller (2 stage) and a Flame retardant plastic housing, they still havn't got a clue about EPR in APAP mode.

I think they hired a new PDR firm or at least made personell changes. Jim

They did change CEOs this year. And from the interview I read tho the new CEO talked a good story it sounded to me like he considered the DMEs and sleep labs the end users rather than the patients.

It doesn't sound to me like the changes that resulted in the S8 IIs was w/the patient in mind but moreso in longevity of the machine and for the DME/sleep labs which rather fits my impression of the new CEO altho I would think the S8 IIs changes must have been in the pipeline before he took over.

[quote="Goofproof"]From what I read from the .pdf,s, It has a different motor and or controller (2 stage) and a Flame retardant plastic housing, they still havn't got a clue about EPR in APAP mode.

I think they hired a new PDR firm or at least made personell changes. Jim

rested gal wrote:

GreenIce wrote:At least now there is another APAP that's provide pressure relief on exhale.

I'm not sure that's what it's saying. I didn't see anything specifically in the description of "Easy-Breathe" technology about providing pressure relief on exhale but it may be that the "low inertia, dual stage motor" might slow down some when a person breathes out.

Sounded to me as if the new motor was being touted more for being quieter than before. Not because of exhalation pressure relief although that might happen just a leeetle depending on how forcefully a person breathes out.

Certainly doesn't sound anything like the kind of exhalation pressure relief a person would get from either Respironics' C-Flex, A-Flex, or Bi-Flex. Or from resmed's own "EPR" in cpap. I think if "Easy-Breathe" technology were more than just a quieter motor, they'd have made "pressure relief on exhalation" a major blurb,

HI RG

Did you find any info on the Easy-Breathe stuff ? - the brochure says very little - I'll try to do some searching to see if I can turn up any facts on what it may or may not do.

Beyond that the only thing I can think that is different from the Mod 1 is that they may have adopted a small dual impeller blower (adapted from the Vpap Adapt) which theoretically would allow the motor to run at much slower speeds and thus less 'whine' than the Resmed S7s & the Respironics M series are famous for.

I am wondering if the Easy-Breathe is merely an adaptation of the EPR breathe-out detection algorithm. Anyway, I'll see what I can sniff out.

DSM


#2 - first search turned up nothing more than we already read in their brochure. The emphasis is on the motor having a dual stage (I read that as dual impellor), and having low-inertia (I read that as meaning they can change its speed very quickly to respond to instantaneous pressure needs).

I guess someone will have to get their hands on one & try it before we can speculate too much

DSM

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, resmed, C-FLEX, CPAP, APAP

dsm wrote:Jim,

Why do you believe EPR *has* to be available in Auto mode ?

EPR is a BiLevel function that delivers a consistent BiLevel capability & having used BiLevel machines for a couple of years I can see no rhyme nor reason to the case that it has to be part of the Auto function.

What are the benefits to anyone having to have EPR (BiLevel) functioning while the machine is in CPAP Auto mode ?. Is there any info you have that points out advantages to it working the way you are saying ?

Tks

DSM

Jim can speak for himself, but speaking for me, the benefit is that I do find exhalation pressure relief (C-Flex) to be MUCH more comfortable in the autopaps I've used -- some of them had it, some didn't. It simply feels more like natural breathing to me to have less resistance at least at the beginning of each exhalation. Even better feeling (to me) is the way the BiPAP Auto's "Bi-Flex" gives an icing on the cake drop to the beginning of the already lower EPAP pressure.

I'm not sure what "having used Bilevel machines for a couple of years" has to do with the benefits of exhalation relief in autopaps...apples and oranges, imho...but anyway, "EPR" reminds me of something I've been meaning to post:

Recently I've subjectively compared the feel of EPR in an S8 Elite cpap I have, to the feel of true bilevel. For the comparison, I used my BiPAP Auto set to operate in bilevel mode with auto-titrating turned off, bi-flex turned off, and the "rise time" setting at 0.

I set IPAP on the bipap at the same number as the pressure I had set the Elite for... pressure of 12. I set EPR on the Elite at 3 (for a 3 cm drop on exhale) and EPAP on the bipap at 9, to give a 3 cm drop for exhale.

I really expected the exact same feeling of exhale relief from both machines. Oddly, it didn't turn out that way. For whatever reason, the bipap felt more comfortable. More like natural breathing. It's a mystery to me why they didn't both feel exactly the same on exhale. There was definitely a feeling of more resistance against the exhale with the Elite.

When that happened, I even went so far as to have my sister come over and switch the hose back and forth. Turned on a fan so I could not hear either machine. Consistently the one I found more comfortable was the bipap. Go figure.

And no, I didn't hold my breath at the end of any of the exhalations to see which machine eventually would let the inhale pressure back in.

I think all the manufacturers who don't have an exhalation relief feature in their autopaps are missing providing an option that can certainly make using an autopap more comfortable -- more natural feeling for many of us.

resmed isn't the only one that's missing it as a feature to use, or not, as one prefers, with their autopaps. Puritan Bennett doesn't have it either. And from what I've heard about the autopaps F&P and DeVilbiss plan to introduce, they won't either. So far Respironics is the only one that has exhalation relief ( C-flex ) in their autopaps.

rested gal wrote:

dsm wrote:Jim,

Why do you believe EPR *has* to be available in Auto mode ?

EPR is a BiLevel function that delivers a consistent BiLevel capability & having used BiLevel machines for a couple of years I can see no rhyme nor reason to the case that it has to be part of the Auto function.

What are the benefits to anyone having to have EPR (BiLevel) functioning while the machine is in CPAP Auto mode ?. Is there any info you have that points out advantages to it working the way you are saying ?

Tks

DSM

Jim can speak for himself, but speaking for me, the benefit is that I do find exhalation pressure relief (C-Flex) to be MUCH more comfortable in the autopaps I've used -- some of them had it, some didn't. It simply feels more like natural breathing to me to have less resistance at least at the beginning of each exhalation. Even better feeling (to me) is the way the BiPAP Auto's "Bi-Flex" gives an icing on the cake drop to the beginning of the already lower EPAP pressure.

I'm not sure what "having used Bilevel machines for a couple of years" has to do with the benefits of exhalation relief in autopaps...apples and oranges, imho...but anyway, "EPR" reminds me of something I've been meaning to post:

Recently I've subjectively compared the feel of EPR in an S8 Elite cpap I have, to the feel of true bilevel. For the comparison, I used my BiPAP Auto set to operate in bilevel mode with auto-titrating turned off, bi-flex turned off, and the "rise time" setting at 0.

I set IPAP on the bipap at the same number as the pressure I had set the Elite for... pressure of 12. I set EPR on the Elite at 3 (for a 3 cm drop on exhale) and EPAP on the bipap at 9, to give a 3 cm drop for exhale.

I really expected the exact same feeling of exhale relief from both machines. Oddly, it didn't turn out that way. For whatever reason, the bipap felt more comfortable. More like natural breathing. It's a mystery to me why they didn't both feel exactly the same on exhale. There was definitely a feeling of more resistance against the exhale with the Elite.

When that happened, I even went so far as to have my sister come over and switch the hose back and forth. Turned on a fan so I could not hear either machine. Consistently the one I found more comfortable was the bipap. Go figure.

And no, I didn't hold my breath at the end of any of the exhalations to see which machine eventually would let the inhale pressure back in.

I think all the manufacturers who don't have an exhalation relief feature in their autopaps are missing providing an option that can certainly make using an autopap more comfortable -- more natural feeling for many of us.

resmed isn't the only one that's missing it as a feature to use, or not, as one prefers, with their autopaps. Puritan Bennett doesn't have it either. And from what I've heard about the autopaps F&P and DeVilbiss plan to introduce, they won't either. So far Respironics is the only one that has exhalation relief ( C-flex ) in their autopaps.

RG,

A-Flex is great as a relief mechanism on a cpap & an apap But if someone is on Bilevel why do they need the pressures to roam. BiLevel provide the relief. What known benefits are there from adding roaming onto the known benefits & predictability that we get from BiLevel.

I know we agree on normal pressure relief in straight cpap mode.



DSM

RG

Re this experiment you did ...

"Recently I've subjectively compared the feel of EPR in an S8 Elite cpap I have, to the feel of true bilevel. For the comparison, I used my BiPAP Auto set to operate in bilevel mode with auto-titrating turned off, bi-flex turned off, and the "rise time" setting at 0.

I set IPAP on the bipap at the same number as the pressure I had set the Elite for... pressure of 12. I set EPR on the Elite at 3 (for a 3 cm drop on exhale) and EPAP on the bipap at 9, to give a 3 cm drop for exhale.

I really expected the exact same feeling of exhale relief from both machines. Oddly, it didn't turn out that way. For whatever reason, the bipap felt more comfortable. More like natural breathing. It's a mystery to me why they didn't both feel exactly the same on exhale. There was definitely a feeling of more resistance against the exhale with the Elite.

When that happened, I even went so far as to have my sister come over and switch the hose back and forth. Turned on a fan so I could not hear either machine. Consistently the one I found more comfortable was the bipap. Go figure.
"

What I hear you say (subjectively) is how much you enjoy what you are familiar with. The 1st time I tried EPR I also tried comparing it with what I was used to (my Pb330). I felt it wasn't as nice as what I was used to & commented here in cpaptalk.

I did though suspect that we all get used to particular setups & behaviors & this was brought home to me when I was on the Puget Sound in late Sept and was loaned an S8 Autoscore. I set it to EPR 13 (equiv to BiLevel 13/10) & was expecting to be a bit unhappy with it but to the contrary, I got used to it quickly & really liked it. I had previously concluded that the EPR 'rise' seems to push back compared to my PB330 (which is highly tunable), but when I had no choice & just used the S8 in EPR, by the end of the trip I was very comfortable with it & felt it worked great.

While I did revert back to my PB330 when back at home, I am close to swapping over my S8 Autoscore (reserve) & use it for a month or more.

I guess that what I am saying is that I am now a believer that we can and do get used to particular setups & a lot of that is our own preconditioning vs the objective facts.

DSM

There is downloadable PDF files on the Resmed AU website. It distinctly states that EPR is only available in CPAP Mode.

The machine looks very interesting as far as the noise level and the new blower system. I am curious.

Titrator

RG...what's the difference between C-flex and A-flex. Would my resmed "autoset spirit"(think it's an S7) have any EPR in cpap mode?

track wrote:RG...what's the difference between C-flex and A-flex.

Sep 19, 2007 subject: Difference between C-Flex and A-Flex Snoredog posted Respironics' graphical description of the differences between C-Flex, Bi-Flex, and A-flex.
viewtopic.php?t=24289

In a nutshell, all three act like C-Flex on the exhale. Dropping pressure at the beginning of each exhalation.

C-flex doesn't do anything to inhale pressure.

In addition to behaving like C-Flex for exhaling, A-Flex and Bi-Flex also deal with the inhale pressure, rounding out the inhale pressure, giving a smoother feel to the transitions.

Looks to me like A-flex and Bi-Flex are different names for the same thing -- A-Flex being what it's called in the autopap; Bi-Flex being what it's called in the bipap.

That's my understanding of them, anyway. I could be describing them poorly.

track wrote:Would my resmed "autoset spirit"(think it's an S7) have any EPR in cpap mode?

If it's an S7 machine, no...there's no EPR in S7's no matter what mode you operate the machine in.

EPR was added to the S8 series, for cpap mode only. Can't be turned on in auto mode.