F&P HC150

KAZ · Post by **KAZ** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:23 pm

The verbage on the HC 150 says it will not work on some auto cpap machines. Does anyone know if it will wori with a Resp Auto Bipap. Regards

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): auto cpap, bipap, auto

sthnreb · Post by **sthnreb** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:32 pm

I have the Bipap Auto with intergrated humidifier. The HC 150 you speak of, I also have one of those which I use with my backup machine. It should work fine with the auto. It is a separate humidifier and uses an 18" hose to connect to the machine. The auto on/off feature of the Bipap Auto may not work going through the humidifier and then to the machine. I have the new humidifier chamber and it doesn't work on mine anyway. Just connect the 18" hose to the humidifier and your tube to the humidifier. Of course the intergrated controls on the machine will not control the humidifier. Should work fine though.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:00 pm

Speaking of the HC150. I got so tired of the intigrated humidifier I recently bought the HC150. I have noticed something and maybe I am not thinking clearly but when I use the intigrated humidifier the leak rate on my NAII (Small) generally reads 28 or 29. When I use the same machine and same mask with the HC150 the leak rate is usually around 30 or 31. Can this be right? Is it my imagination? Using it on an "M" Auto not a Bi-Pap. Could this be the reason they say it won't work on some machines. The auto on does work for me.

sthnreb · Post by **sthnreb** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:15 pm

All a humidifier does is heat the water. The more you turn it up, the warmer the water. The air from the machine just passes over the water and picks it up as a mist and delivers it to the mask along with the air. It should work on all machines but may decrease some of the machines functions and could possibly give different readings.

billbolton · Post by **billbolton** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:29 pm

sthnreb wrote:All a humidifier does is heat the water.

Ah, no. It's purpose is to heat the water, but what it does (amongst other things) from a fluid-mechanics point of view is change the impedance characteristic in terms of the air circuit from the flow generator output to the mask. This particularly relates to the minum and maximum volumes of air in the humdifier chamber and the air flow path.

With a manufacturer's own humdifier(s), the manufacturer will know what that impedance change will be from introducing their humdifier into the circuit and so can allow for it. However, with a humdifier of unknown characteritics, they can't readily make such allowance for the impedance change, which could possibly impact the performace of some specific aspects of the flow generator, particularly for features which interactively react with the "sensed" conditions at the mask.

I don't know how serious this actually is in practice but I can see it impacting some "auto" features to some extent.

Cheers,

Bill

sthnreb · Post by **sthnreb** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:11 pm

Now, explain to him why it won't work with his machine. I agreed it could affect some of the readings. But to say it won't work with that machine is something else. Personally, I would connect the humidifier and learn to live with it. Because the water chamber is 18" of hose away from the machine and the machine pumping positive pressure into and out of the chamber, I see no way the water "could" backup into the machine and cause a problem. It's give it a try or not. I think they will work with any machine but perhaps not at 100% efficiency of the machine. It's an individual decision to use it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:27 pm

Another 0.2c worth

From what I understand, the early model Autos were affected to a degree by the HC150 as the chamber & added 1 foot hose acted as a sound damper (muffler) to the snore noise that *used* to be detected with sonic detectors in the early Auto machines. Because of the problems in using sonic detectors, they were abandoned in favor of 'pressure transducers' which were better able to pick up vibrations in the air even through a humidifier.

This issue was much worse with the big flat 'passover' humidifiers.

But today:
The HC150 if kept to its full mark each night, will not be much different to an integrated humidifier on most machines despite the extra 1 foot hose between the chamber & the machine.

DSM

jaybee72 · Post by **jaybee72** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but some of the oddball machines have a second little hose run inside the big one that does some kind of pressure sensing. I believe some of the DeVilbiss' have this and maybe a couple of others. Seems like the connections on those machines would be a problem.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:26 pm

Ok I have been running it only about half full. I will fill all the way to the full line and see if ig grt the same results.

Thanks, and I really did not intend to hijack this thread.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:48 pm

[quote="jaybee72"]Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but some of the oddball machines have a second little hose run inside the big one that does some kind of pressure sensing. I believe some of the DeVilbiss' have this and maybe a couple of others. Seems like the connections on those machines would be a problem.

Machine

Additional Comments: Resmed AirCurve 10 VAuto BiLevel with HumidAir

Machine	Mask

Additional Comments: Airmini, Medistrom Pilot 24, CMS 60C Pulse Oximeter, ResScan 6