Dumbest Postings/Darwin candidate?

tomjax · Post by **tomjax** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:13 pm

This is a posting on another forum that was mercifully removed.
This guy is a prime candidate for a DARWIN AWARD.
anyone got one to beat this one?
---------------------
Posted by Mickey1 on April 11, 2005 at 02:12:47:

I found out a year ago I had OSA; 104 arousals in 388 min. After
reading
this forum I came to the conclusion there has to be a less intrusive
way to
help this condition. Reading about the CPAP method with a full face
mask
gave me an idea. Could I just get inside the mask to have it work? Well
the
answer is no at least at CPAP pressure; 20 millibars. I built a wooden
hyberic sleep chamber. I am now testing at about 1089 millibars. The
compressor I have is used for the Gamow Bag but my Box is much bigger
5.5'x5.5'x7'. I have been going very slow so as not to blow myself up.
At
the current pressure there is about five thousand pounds pressure on
each
side of the box. The 4x4s are bending a little but still work. I am
going to
add another compressor soon. I should be able to get up to
1189 millibars if the Box holds.
I do feel better but that could be due to increase o2 saturation
because of
the pressure. Tapes show I still have arousals but not as many.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Tampa Tom · Post by **Tampa Tom** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:08 pm

Oh, that's too funny. Talk about being under pressure....

divajojo · Post by **divajojo** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:21 pm

I don't get it.

Mikesus · Post by **Mikesus** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:57 pm

The funny part is that it isn't the pressure outside your body that holds your airway open...

There is a reason it is called an AIR SPLINT...

I guess its posts like that, that are the reason the pressure settings are locked out...

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:12 pm

Mikesus wrote:The funny part is that it isn't the pressure outside your body that holds your airway open...

Maybe he props his mouth wide open all night.

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:21 pm

As the master of jokes and all methods of deception I'd say this is a prank. You've all been duped.

Liam1965 · Post by **Liam1965** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:08 pm

I agree with Chrisp. And clearly, based on the physics, that method wouldn't work.

The whole reason why CPAP works is a differential between the air at the entrance to your body (mouth & nose) and the pressure compressing your lungs and throat.

Put it another way: If you take a balloon and increase the pressure at the opening only (aka blow into it) the balloon inflates. If you put the whole balloon inside a pressure chamber, it really doesn't matter how high (or low) you set the pressure, the balloon will never inflate, because the pressure on the inside and the pressure on the outside are exactly the same.

It would be nice if using a hyperbaric chamber would help. More expensive, but we could all sleep a whole lot better if we could just build a large pressurized chamber and put a nice comfy bed inside of it.

Liam, who prefers to inflate balloons by creating a vacuum AROUND them, rather than blowing INTO them.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:17 pm

Liam1965 wrote:Liam, who prefers to inflate balloons by creating a vacuum AROUND them, rather than blowing INTO them.

This is the way a iron lung works subjecting the body, below the neck, to an intermittent vacuum to raise the chest an fill the lungs with air.

Mikesus · Post by **Mikesus** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:48 pm

Liam1965 wrote: The whole reason why CPAP works is a differential between the air at the entrance to your body (mouth & nose) and the pressure compressing your lungs and throat.

I wouldn't say that the pressure is compressing the lungs and throat. A better description would be the a pressurization or air splinting of the airway to maintain airway patency.

A good visual is one of a elongated balloon. No pressure and the balloon walls touch, pressurize the balloon, and the walls seperate.

Davidmcc · Post by **Davidmcc** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:45 pm

Whilst I agree this is a prank, Wader is closer to the mark. Our candiate should be constructing a vacuum chamber he sits in with head outside, rather like some old steam cabinets but having reduced pressure rather than increased pressure. This may however have other unwanted effects so I think we should tell him "Don't try this at home"

Mikesus · Post by **Mikesus** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:37 pm

Davidmcc wrote:Whilst I agree this is a prank, Wader is closer to the mark. Our candiate should be constructing a vacuum chamber he sits in with head outside, rather like some old steam cabinets but having reduced pressure rather than increased pressure. This may however have other unwanted effects so I think we should tell him "Don't try this at home"

Still wouldn't work. The reason CPAP works is because of the higher pressure in the airway.

Liam1965 · Post by **Liam1965** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:46 pm

Mikesus wrote:Still wouldn't work. The reason CPAP works is because of the higher pressure in the airway.

Actually, it would. That's how an IRON LUNG works, as he mentioned.

It's not the pressure, per se, it's the pressure differential.

That's why machines have an auto altitude adjustment. You don't need an ABSOLUTE pressure of (in my case) 9, you need a pressure differential of 9. Put another way, I don't need the pressure to raise water 9 cm up a tube at sea level, I need whatever pressure is needed to raise it 9 cm up a tube where ever I am. Meaning in Denver, output pressure from my machine would be lower.

Liam, who hopes he's got this right, he's pretty sure he does.

Mikesus · Post by **Mikesus** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:03 pm

Yes but you need it only in your airway.

Iron lungs were designed for a very specific use. By cycling pressure/Vacuum outside ones chest you can alternate between inhaling and exhaling. A ventilator works similarly but only on the airway.

CPAP works by OPENING the airway, removing the obstruction by forcing a pressure differential thru the airway. If you are in an apneic event, you can cause all the vacuum outside the body that you want but you more than likely won't create enough to force the obstruction open. (imagine somone sitting on your chest trying to get the air out of your lungs while plugging your nose.) If you are If you apply that same pressure to the airway, you will restore the sagging airway structure,removing the obstruction, resuming airway patency, and allowing normal breathing.

The general statement regarding the amount of pressure is true if you subscribe to the theory that a single pressure resolves all or most events. As I haven't had a single night where the pressure stayed at a single pressure, this wouldn't apply in my case, but would apply in others.

An iron lung works by creating an underpressure in a chamber which encloses the body and is sealed at the neck. With the patient's airways open, the resulting gradient to the atmospheric pressure serves to inflate the lungs.

Mechanical Ventilation

Note that they say when the airway is OPEN. Without the airway being open, the lungs would not inflate.

Wow, for a probable fish tail story, he sure got us talking!

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:07 pm

Iron lungs are old. They later came out with the rocking bed ! Then the respirator. Surely we can put this prank to bed. Surely

tomjax · Post by **tomjax** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:11 am

I do not think the original post was a prank. The arguments posted here were also posted as a reply to the Darwin Candidate anad he replied sincerely.

It seems he is/was simply wrong in his understanding of the physics involved along with a severe ignoranceof the danger involved..

Logic and intuition can be helpful in many situations, but facts sometimes are the operative and limiting principle.

This was on sleepnet and Sandman removed all of the postings as he does with many. his forum, his rules.

I have seen smarter people make the Darwin Awards.

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