Infinity

Has anybody tried the new Infinty nasal system from Fisher & Paykel?

What keeps it in place? The little band in the picture seems inadequate.

I have one, been using it a couple weeks, and I love it. The nasal inserts have a couple extra features that keep the sucker in place. One, they have little ridges on them such that they behave like a fish-hook. Easy in, little harder out (not too hard, it just keeps the tension in the nose). Two, they have a lip around them so that you know when they are inserted to their max-desired depth. This lip keeps them from going in further, and it also helps the seal tremendously. Then, the little elastic tube that attaches to each side and then runs around your head over your ears keeps it snugged just enough that it doesn't fall out of your nose without effort. The profile of the insert looks something like this:

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I can't do it justice, but maybe this gives you the idea.

Now, I will say that since the hose coming out is off the the side, it is possible to apply enough torque on the hose extension to pop the seal on one nostril or the other. Depending on how you route the hose, you can dislodge a nostril when rolling over during sleep. There is a "ball valve" that allows the hose connector/extension to swivel around from side to side; I wish it had a way for it to just come straight down rather than off the side so that this torque issue could be avoided. I do consider the lateral torque issue to be a deficiency, but I still like everything else about the mask. I have virtually no issues in the morning (or in anger at 4:30 AM) when I take off the mask. And, the tube that is in contact with your head over your ears is basically identical in size to an oxygen tube they use in hospitals, etc. to put O2 into your nose.

Hope this info helps. If the hose-out-the-side does start to bug me too much, I think I can destroy/modify the current setup to make it come straight down. For now, I have asked my DME to check with F&P to see if the have or intend to have an option for straight down connection. I would call this mask just about as good as you can get if they would provide both ways as an option.

-Jeff

Clear description, Jeff...thanks. I mentally lined the diagram up and understand what you're talking about. Have you ever used the NasalAire II? Asking just as a way to compare "sound". How noisy/quiet is the Infinity to you?

I realize "noise" is a subjective thing, so was hoping you've used a NasalAire II before (was very noisy to me), to give kind of a ballpark sound comparison.

I "test fitted" the NasalAire II against my machine when I was selecting a first mask. I rejected it because of the noise. Didn't like the prospect of hissing like a tractor tire with a slow leak in it. I (and my bunk mate, a.k.a. wife of 22 years) find the Infinity to be virtually silent. They put a rectangular diffuser with filter insert all across the front of the "base" that the nasal prong piece plugs onto. Even if I exhale as hard and fast as I can, the sound is barely noticeable more than 12" away from me. And, if you have ever seen an Oracle, it has a exhale pressure valve thingy (technical term) at the end of the connector hose that "exhales" with you. The Infinity is nothing like that; the diffuser on the front seems to handle it all extremely well. My apparatus is a REMstar Auto with C-Flex with the integrated humidifier if that matters in evaluating my quietness claims.

I'm *very* new to this game so I don't have the base of experience of a lot of you folks, though, so my comparison information is very limited. Of all the different items I tried with pressure flowing through them, I found the Fisher & Paykel units to be the quietest overall. I currently have the Infinity and an Oracle which I use on nights when I just can't tolerate anything in my nose. I had what I feel to be botched sinus surgery a few years back and after an explosive nose bleed one night 3 years after the surgery (a living Monty Python skit; doctor panic'ed and left the room when I pulled a Jimi Hendrix on the exam table), I ended up with a perforated septum once the ENT on call got done with me. So, I am still prone to nose-bleeds. The fit of the Infinity combined with a healthy heat setting on the humidifier is actually helping keep the nasal passages moist, but the tissues in there are still pretty sensitive and I just can't face even the Infinity on those nights.

One plus of the Oracle, IMHO, is that is accomplishes some of the same things as a TAP device for me. I can't bite down with the "scuba mouthpiece" in my mouth, and the position that it holds my (small) lower jaw in actually keeps my tongue a bit further forward than when I don't use it. The "lockjaw" in the morning is a pain with it though, and it is a bit noiser although the bunkmate says it is significantly quieter than my snoring used to be.

So, do I have the perfect mask? No. But, the Infinity is virtually silent, and it doesn't drive me too mad when I need to roll-over. And, for the other nights, I find the Oracle to be a good fit for a daytime mouth-breather like me.

Hope that helps,

-Jeff

I just noticed that my stupid little diagram didn't even display like I typed it in. Sigh. So, I ran upstairs and snapped a quick pick of the unit with the inserts attached. I lied about the filter in the diffuser; I had it confused with the filter in the Oracle. Sorry about that. But, you can clearly see the shape of the nasal inserts as well as the strategy for the diffuser. You can also see my "problem" with the device; the ball-valve is cocked over to one side as far as it will go. So, if you want the hose to run down your chest like I do, that part is a pain. Still the best I tried on, though.



Guess maybe I should organize thoughts and closeups and post a review of the critter since I seem to be one of the first folks to actually use one for awhile.

-Jeff

Good clear picture of the Infinity, Jeff. What were they thinking to make the connection angled like that. Sheesh. Glad you've found several interfaces that suit you.

What you said about the Oracle reminds me...I keep meaning to get someone to cut off that half-inch or so nub inside it. You like biting down on it, but it's an annoyance to me. I don't really want to bite on it, so I end up with it bumping my front teeth. One of these days I'll get around to having that cut off flush. I don't want to do it like I did the original Oracle that had the ridiculously long so called "tongue guide" extending into the mouth. I took a serrated knife to that thing to get rid of it. heh.

If the mask makers would just let experienced users try these things out in the EARLY development stage before there's so much time/money invested in the development that there's no going back.... oh well. It would be very, very interesting to know exactly how they "test" things in the early stages. By the time they supposedly ask a group try them out (if they even do that) the finished design of the mask is a done deal, it seems.

Guess it doesn't really matter to the big companies. The vast majority of cpap users just accept whatever mask their DME hands them. They use it. Or they quietly drop out. The only thing the mask companies really have to do is have a cracker jack sales force to convince the DMEs to stock their stuff. Most DMEs don't have a clue about what makes a mask suitable or not. After all, most of their patients don't question anything about this stuff. And so it goes....

Thanks for all the info.
I've read a little about it from other short posts - the problem does seem to be in the angle of the elbow tube or possible in the weight of it putting torque or force on the mask causing it to be pulled from the nose. How much of a problem is this and exactly how far into the nostrils is the pillow inserted? Does the pillow seal inside, outside or both?

Thanks for the detailed photo and experience.
Can you tell me if your nares and inside passage of your nostrils are circular? Mine are oval, almost elliptically flat, and it seems that there may be a problem of excess pressure if the shape of the :insertee" is not the same as the "inserted".

Square peg in a round hole huh?

I was thinking the same thing. Unless the shape is very close, either it is going to leak or be fairly uncomfortable. Thanks for the pic tho, think I will stick with my Aura!

Good to hear that this unobtrusive little device may have merit.

Ok, let me see if I can answer the several followon questions.

My nares are oval, and the four sizes of inserts that come with the Infinity are all progressive sizes of ovals; pretty much the same shape as the others I have seen. There is not really any variation as the the aspect ratio of the inserts, just the overall size. So, if you have narrow openings approaching, that plastic replacement nose that Michael Jackson has, then I would tend to agree that the lateral force from the inserts would get rather uncomfortable before morning. With the wide soft lip under the edge of the nose, I think the primary issue would be comfort rather than leak.

The seal is on the inside of the nose and then the lower edge of the nose; there is nothing wrapping around the outside of the nostrils whatsoever.

As for the magnitude of the torque issue; for me, I have to wake up to unwrap myself from the hose to rollover anyway -- I tend to sleep on my side facing one direction or the other hugging a body pillow since my bedmate doesn't want to become entangled in the hose with me. So, the massive movements I undertake even broke the seal on the face mask I had on during titration study. If I start out on my back, I have found that I have rolled to one side without waking up and without breaking the seal on the thing. But, I am having overall problems figuring out how to route the hose to keep from being tangled in it anyway. Thinking of mounting a smaller version of a boat mooring mast from my nightstand to have the hose drop down from above

Of course, with my perforated septum, I *could* route the little tie hose up and through the perforation. Then, I could tie off the Infinity to that like a nose-ring to a bull's nose. I could just see explaining that one to the paramedics when I bolt out of bed to a clap of thunder or such.

Boat mooring mast - home recipe:
One nail
One hook of the kind on which you hang pictures
One short peice of thread
One elastic headband (girls' sports' etc.)
One hammer

Take hammer, nail nail with picture hook to wall above bed
Take thread, thread though headband, create loop and tie (you can use a fancy sailor knot if it makes you happy, but any knot will do ).
Hang thread loop on hook.
Disconnect CPAP hose form mask or machine
Pull hose though headband.
Reconnect...

Enjoy.

O.

Another Boat mooring mast - home recipe:
One nail
One elastic headband (newer kind are only 1/4 inch wide.)
One hammer

Hammer nail into top or back of headboard.Take headband,catch over nail or make a loop with it and hang it on nail if your want. Thread hose through headband and attach mask. Route mask up.Turn from left to right all night long without getting tangled.

This simple fix has been a hugefactor in my sleep comfort with CPAP.

I use the Infinity 481 mask, Remstar Plus C-flex, pressure only 6 -- briefly used the Swift mask. Regarding the Infinity 481 -- the torque on the hose discussion is right on -- although the Infinity seems extremely light on the face, it does after a few hours wear on the nose ONLY because of the need to monitor the hose placement. That high elbow won't let it lie flat --

If you position the hose on top of a comforter, sleeping on your back, the hose elbow is perfectly positioned and there's no stress on the nose. Side sleeping seems easy also with hose on the mattress. The very unobtrusive headgear makes side sleeping great. Now, with no comforter for support, a whole new hosegame for back sleeping or tossing and turning.

The flanges on the nasal insert seem to be the main stabilizer, instead of heavy face / head gear -- so it's hose to nose on that torque.... Even so, this little mask is great for me.

I'm new to Cpap, only 2 weeks on. I am so thankful for this forum.....