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If you want to un-delete posts and create a document that flows, put them in context by showing ALL questionable posts by ALL posters, not just the ones that YOU (judge, jury, executioner) see as problematic.

tomjax wrote:you seem to not get it.

What I "get", sir, is that like it or not, the human race operates in a "caste" system. The way we move within it is accomplished in one of 3 ways:

1. Tearing others down.
2. Building ourselves up.
3. Building others up.

The results of #1 and #3 are inversely proportional to the activity. Trying to tear others down reduces yourself. Building others up improves your own character. If you're a #2 you're performing at a basically "acceptable" level (right, life has it's own Performance Appraisal).

I would further offer, sir, in my attempt to get more #1's to be at least a little more like a #2 (yeah, I planned that, it also doesn't hurt to be able to periodically laugh at one's self), I respectfully submit that the world (at least this virtual world) might be a better place.

No, I don't plan to repost that junk, that would be absolutely contrary to my point.
SAG

It's truly rare to see someone continue to support such a flawed argument with such vigor. I support your right to feel that way -- that's where we differ. When you remove someone's post, you remove the thought they attempted to convey. We have the right to think whatever we want, and state it, and let the listener be the judge. You proclaimed yourself my judge, in blocking what I could see or not see. You are not better than me; you should try to judge me.

There is good in everyone, whether you choose to see it or not. You may see the need to elevate yourself by tearing others down. I do not.

The result: I can sleep at night. Now I may not be well rested due to OSA, but I can sleep with a clear concience knowing that I did not proclaim myself someone else's judge.

Johnny indirectly warned you. I support & laud him for it.

Take the hint.

S(pews) A(bject) G(arbage)

StillAnotherGuest wrote: What I "get", sir, is that like it or not, the human race operates in a "caste" system. The way we move within it is accomplished in one of 3 ways:

1. Tearing others down.
2. Building ourselves up.
3. Building others up.

Would you be willing to consider another way of perceving this all?

Try simplifying it into three areas.
1/ The emotional/perceptional state of the sender.
2/ The rattling of the physical universe i.e. fingers clicking on keyboards, electrons buzzing vibrating in wires, phospors lighting up on screens.
3/ The emotional/perceptional state of the reeader.

The messages SAG doesn't like most probably..

1/ represent a sender in pain, they are angry, they are not accepting and loving the universe, they need our understanding, they might be asking for help
.
2/ The rattling of the universe just consumes a little energy. No physical damage occurs to the recipient.

3/ The reader can choose to perceive the message in many ways. The reader can go into pain, the reader can laugh, the reader can love the sender. Its the reader's choice as to what emotional/perceptional state they go into (well maybe, I am not sure of this one)

So do we want one person to unilaterally prevent state 2 occurring for lots of readers because they chose to go into a judgemental state in phase 3?

All the above is just another way of looking at it all and may or may not be dangerous to any preconceived notions you may have of how the universe operates.

Me, I am just clicking on the keyboard, shaking up those electrons and enjoying a cup of coffee.

My main interest is that my leak rate was high last night and my AHI went up to 2. Anyone got any ideas? I would prefer to get my leak rate down, my energy level up. Can't we talk about that kind of stuff here rather than useless ideas of people behaviour like I just rattled on about?

Lets talk about Sleep Apnea instead of people behaviour.

John M (tongue very much in cheek causing less apnea's)

Well no offense John_M but I think Johnny did an excellent job of statesmanship on the topic of this thread. Heck ... I would strongly consider voting for him should he run for a public office within my voting district. Nevertheless, his philosophy on human nature and behaviour is one I agree with.

If you wish for someone to comment on your leak rate ... you may want to start a new thread and get better results.

SAG, I'm deadly serious here: were you bullied as a child (by parent, peer, or other adult)? I was. And therefore, I can see your point of view.

We have to have a thick skin when we visit boards like this because there will ALWAYS be a bully of some sort in EVERY group. What you may perceive as cruel torment, someone else might skim and say, "whatever" and ignore. I learned this the hard way long ago.

As a member of generation x, boards like this are a part of my world and have been for years, but I got my feelings hurt a lot in the beginning by taking personally some attacks by other members (of other boards obviously--I'm new here) before I realized that even though I spent my whole life measuring myself by other people's standards, what was most important was BEING HAPPY WITH HOW I WAS BEHAVING.

If you always take the high road you have nothing to fear. And you can ignore the flaming rants of others who do not have the same level of self-control. Everyone else is weighing what you say and thinking and responding to sanity--no one is evaluating your posts through the lens of what a flaming poster might be saying, except, possibly, for you.

You are giving the flamers power by letting what they say bother you. If you ignore it (like most people who perhaps are sensitive due to severe bullying; as I have personally learned) you will have a much more happy experience here and on other boards.

I don't know if that is what your issue is? Just know that it explains my previous experiences and hope that it will help you.

I like the rules of this board. I support free speech.

Jen

Another aspect to think about. When you moderate a thread yourself and decide yourself that someone's snotty comment wasn't helpful and you delete it, that most likely will further infuriate them and make their next post even more snotty and mean. So in the end, it only makes things worse.

Thanks johnny for the good explanation of things.

My sister is a middle child and a peace maker. I told her I was amazed at her tolerance of someone else's behavior. (Surely mine is always perfect:) Her attitude is "there goes Jenny being Jenny again". If you remove anger as a response, you can replace it with tolerance or avoidance and they are a lot less stressful for yourself.

I'm done preaching for now.

Julie

Someone mentioned ignoring the flamers, and that is an excellent point, although hard to do sometimes, I admit. If we would just totally ignore the bullies, the egos, the name-callers, eventually it will probably slow down to a crawl because those types of posters will not be getting the attention they so desparately crave and either move on to another board, or clean up their acts. If not, at least we won't be extending the "war" over 5, 6, 7 or more pages! (It's kinda hard to keep arguing with someone when they won't argue back. )

Leaving the posts also serves another purpose. It let's everyone see the personalities and behaviors of posters. For me, I think much less of a person who posts rants and raves, etc., and think much less of their future opinions. Yeah, we all go off sometimes. In those cases, if an apology is offered, it can be accepted and we all move on.

Unfortunately, life is full of people with too-large egos, and we seem to have more than our share here. Even so, the wonderful, helpful people outweigh them.

I'm only a member of about four boards altogether and only see this problem here for some reason, but maybe I'm just lucky!

Pam

Weary One,
I was smoked in a thread several days back. I did not retaliate and it was very very difficult to not fire back. I was actually pacing the room formulating witty retorts. But as each day passed, it was easier to let it go. That thread left the first page and is working it's way down the second page of the board. Before long it will be history. It was not easy taking the flame but I had nothing to gain by being drawn in. After all, moths are drawn to flame and end up getting burned. Had I engaged, it would have merely provided amusement for others and had no relative bearing on this site. The flame wars here are just like auto accidents for a lot of people. You just have to look even though you don't want to.
So, I ignored it, (taking cleansing breath) and I feel pretty good about myself today.
That being said, this site has so many people experienced in xPAP and are very willing to share their knowledge. The occasional sting is well worth the price of admission.

To Johnny Goodman,

Thank you for hosting and providing this valuable and much needed forum. I have read your post and will try to follow your approach. I will continue to read posts to look for info that might help with my treatment of OSA. I will stop posting my loopy parody posts about how crazy some of the threads get, and I apologize if my posts offended anyone.

cajapato wrote:Weary One,
I was smoked in a thread several days back. I did not retaliate and it was very very difficult to not fire back. I was actually pacing the room formulating witty retorts. But as each day passed, it was easier to let it go. That thread left the first page and is working it's way down the second page of the board. Before long it will be history. It was not easy taking the flame but I had nothing to gain by being drawn in. After all, moths are drawn to flame and end up getting burned. Had I engaged, it would have merely provided amusement for others and had no relative bearing on this site. The flame wars here are just like auto accidents for a lot of people. You just have to look even though you don't want to.
So, I ignored it, (taking cleansing breath) and I feel pretty good about myself today.
That being said, this site has so many people experienced in xPAP and are very willing to share their knowledge. The occasional sting is well worth the price of admission.

Yep yep! A good approach.

As they say ... Who is more insane? -- an insane person initiating argument or the person willing to argue with the insane person?

Sometimes I wish I wasn't so insane myself ...

WearyOne wrote:Someone mentioned ignoring the flamers, and that is an excellent point, although hard to do sometimes, I admit. If we would just totally ignore the bullies, the egos, the name-callers, eventually it will probably slow down to a crawl because those types of posters will not be getting the attention they so desparately crave and either move on to another board, or clean up their acts. If not, at least we won't be extending the "war" over 5, 6, 7 or more pages! (It's kinda hard to keep arguing with someone when they won't argue back. )

But I think we've all seen it happen where the certain members will continue the attacks & bullying for pages and then declare their view the winner, since they had the most posts

I use to ignore for the most part, watching them attack various posters for expressing dissenting opinions, but if you post any opinion that doesn't match theirs, you are singled out & attacked. I used to cringed when I read some of their post directed at dissenter, but I stayed out of the fray for the most part because no one wants to be on the receiving end, do they? Maybe its just me, but rational discussion & debate is a much better method to deal with conflict then shouting, name calling & bullying. Until a couple months ago, I think I managed to avoid the conflict fairly well here, until I decided to stand my ground and post my concerns about a certain product, which has since been pulled from the market.

Just because some of us don't have booming voices and don't like to argue with name calling & snide comments, doesn't mean our opinion is worth any less. Ignoring the the bullies, the egos, the name-callers doesn't seem to help, as the current condition of the forum tends to create a gang mentality that builds in strength instead of going away. What does go away are a lot of valuable forum members who get sick of the negativity & bullying. Sure some may drift in and out to recheck if the culture of the forum has changed, but I know a lot of people who have left for good.

christinequilts wrote:

WearyOne wrote:Someone mentioned ignoring the flamers, and that is an excellent point, although hard to do sometimes, I admit. If we would just totally ignore the bullies, the egos, the name-callers, eventually it will probably slow down to a crawl because those types of posters will not be getting the attention they so desparately crave and either move on to another board, or clean up their acts. If not, at least we won't be extending the "war" over 5, 6, 7 or more pages! (It's kinda hard to keep arguing with someone when they won't argue back. )

But I think we've all seen it happen where the certain members will continue the attacks & bullying for pages and then declare their view the winner, since they had the most posts

I use to ignore for the most part, watching them attack various posters for expressing dissenting opinions, but if you post any opinion that doesn't match theirs, you are singled out & attacked. I used to cringed when I read some of their post directed at dissenter, but I stayed out of the fray for the most part because no one wants to be on the receiving end, do they? Maybe its just me, but rational discussion & debate is a much better method to deal with conflict then shouting, name calling & bullying. Until a couple months ago, I think I managed to avoid the conflict fairly well here, until I decided to stand my ground and post my concerns about a certain product, which has since been pulled from the market.

Just because some of us don't have booming voices and don't like to argue with name calling & snide comments, doesn't mean our opinion is worth any less. Ignoring the the bullies, the egos, the name-callers doesn't seem to help, as the current condition of the forum tends to create a gang mentality that builds in strength instead of going away. What does go away are a lot of valuable forum members who get sick of the negativity & bullying. Sure some may drift in and out to recheck if the culture of the forum has changed, but I know a lot of people who have left for good.

Call me insane but I just had to respond.

Who decides what is rational and what is bullying?

Who decides what is an attack and what is a dissenting opinion?

I think Johnny did an excellent job of explaining that ... it is each of us as individuals ... some take the high road by not responding, others (myself included) sometimes allow their egos to take a lower road. Nevertheless, calling fellow "certain" unnamed members bullies and negative and attackers is nothing short of the sinner casting the first stone.


BTW - your opinion is not the only one that does not match mine