Question about article in paper

lucy555 · Post by **lucy555** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:26 am

These problems could be warning signs:

A roommate notices pauses in your breathing that last more than 10 seconds, or snoring

Extreme fatigue during the day

Trouble remembering dreams

Unusual irritability

I read this in the article posted at the top of this forum about sleep apnea. I am confused, is it good or bad to remember dreams. The article says if you have problems remembering your dreams it is a problem, I thought it was the opposite. Any ideas from the veterans here?

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:37 am

lucy555 wrote:
These problems could be warning signs:

A roommate notices pauses in your breathing that last more than 10 seconds, or snoring

Extreme fatigue during the day

Trouble remembering dreams

Unusual irritability

I read this in the article posted at the top of this forum about sleep apnea. I am confused, is it good or bad to remember dreams. The article says if you have problems remembering your dreams it is a problem, I thought it was the opposite. Any ideas from the veterans here?

That's a new one to me.
If that's the case, I've still got problems.
Actually, the part about remembering dreams would only be true (to some degree) if you are awakened DURING a dream. I've had dreams that I can (still) remember both BEFORE and AFTER starting therapy.

I think somebody made something up or misquoted something in this case.

Den

linda b · Post by **linda b** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:42 am

I have wondered about this, too. It seems that if you can remember your dreams, "something" must be waking you up during the dream (such as an apnea?). The opposite being that if you don't remember dreams, nothing was waking you up.

However, for many of us the apnea events keep us from getting into REM which is when we dream, I think. Therefore, if we dream and remember them, we know we are getting good restorative sleep. Does that make sense?

I hope someone with more accurate knowledge on this subject will respond to your post.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:04 am

I posted this link awhile back.
According to the article, we can dream in REM sleep AND NREM (non-REM) sleep. My interpretation is that the dreams we have in the "lighter" stages of sleep are easier to remember, too.

http://academic.pg.cc.md.us/~mhspear/sl ... /index.htm

Den

Nitro Dan · Post by **Nitro Dan** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:18 am

The only dreams I remember are the ones I have just prior to waking up in the morning, and within a few minutes, I can't hardly remember them either. (unless it's something wild and crazy)

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:24 am

i've always been able to remember dreams quite vividly, and i've always been a sleepwalker who also acts out my dreams... yes, quite embarrassing at the best of times ...one of the first things my sleep doc asked me was did i have nightmares...i've always had them frequently, even as often as 3-4 times a week where i jump up believing that it's really going on (this will often include running around my house thinking someone has broken in...what can i say? my hubby works a lot of midnights!)...since i've been on cpap (3.5 months) i've had only one or two nightmares and have been remembering dreams even more...i read a thread on here that people have an experience where they sit up suddenly in bed, heart thumping, gasping for air...this was my experience at least 5 nights out of 7 and before i knew i had osa i thought this was caused by my nightmares...i now know that this has been a particularly long apnea which has caused a panic reaction in my body--maybe the nightmare is a manifestation of the panic also?
this is all so new to me, sleep has become a mystery in itself, i don't presume to even begin to understand dreaming; all i know is my sleeping life has always been just as active as my waking life!
sharon1965

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:33 am

I am certainly not the voice of authority you're waiting on, just adding my understanding.

I think the writer chose poor wording with "trouble remembering dreams". One not remembering dreaming at all (not the content of the dream) could be a cause to take pause and could be related to no REM sleep.

There's a wide range of normal as far as remembering dreams go, and that indicator alone isn't the litmus test for having achieved REM. Some have a vague sense of having dreamed while others can quote details. I've read on here that when one is awakened during the REM phase they are more likely to remember their dream.

If awakened by external factors during REM sleep (as by alarm clock, kids or pets) and you remember your dreams, it doesn't mean you have trouble maintaining REM. On the flip side of that, remembering several dreams over the course of a nite could indicate interrupted REM sleep (such as by apnea events).

The key thing for me is that dreams are just one small piece of the symptom puzzle, and while should be considered, would not be even a corner piece of that puzzle (maybe an edge piece though).

Kathy (not really a puzzle meister)

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:49 am

I see some more posts were added while I was typing.

Den, I read that article before and it was very informative. That was the first I knew that dreams happen in non REM also. Glad you reposted the link, I was wondering where I read that. Didn't want to mention it since I wasn't sure if I just dreamed that.

Sharon, my goodness, you do have a potpourri of sleep issues! My father acted out his nightmares also. It's interesting that you say some of your issues improved with cpap. I have felt that my father had severe sleep apnea (back before it was even a diagnosis probably).

The whole subject of dreaming I find fascinating - confusing, but fascinating nonetheless.

Kathy

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:10 am

kathy said:

Sharon, my goodness, you do have a potpourri of sleep issues! My father acted out his nightmares also. It's interesting that you say some of your issues improved with cpap. I have felt that my father had severe sleep apnea (back before it was even a diagnosis probably).

kathy
"don't get me stahted" (say like barbra streisand)
when people say something like they haven't slept well all week, my witty retort has always been "i haven't slept well in 40 years!" but i didn't know it was really true till last december! i've never felt rested and thought that sleeping 12-14 hours was the answer, when really, that was paving the way for so many more apneas and only making me worse! and i just assumed that because i dreamt so vividly and performed all night long, waking up between shows--and sometimes in the middle of them ,that explained my constant tiredness...i had the part about the arousals right, just not the reason!

i find the whole dreaming thing fascinating, too, as you can well imagine; my hubby and kids and anyone who has had the misfortune of rooming with me? not so much

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:10 am

The worst part is sleeping so poorly, you don't have dreams at all. Jim

RosemaryB · Post by **RosemaryB** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:20 am

There is an interesting tutorial on the intro psychology website link below. You have to register to use it. Once you get registered, go to chapter 6 and scroll down on the left-hand frame to PsychSim Tutorials and you will find one on EEG and sleep stages. At the end, you do a little simulated interactive experiment where you wake up a guy hooked up to an EEG and he tells you if he's dreaming or not and describes the dreams. It's kind of fun.

http://tinyurl.com/28akee

For those of you who don't want to register and do it, one of the things that gets covered is dreaming in different stages. This tutorial points out that there is a difference between the dreams we have during REM and what occurs during other stages. During other stages there are "sleep thoughts" which are like normal thinking, or imagining. During REM there is a different quality and these are called "true dreams." They are vivid sensory experiences (more real than thoughts) and often bizzare juxtapositions of characters and events.

If you are missing REM you would not have "true dreams" but you would continue to have sleep thoughts. For years I've said I didn't dream, and when I looked at my sleep study I could see that much of my REM was all broken up with arousals. This wouldn't allow for any sustained dreaming.

Another thing that they point out in this tutorial is that you have quite a bit more REM toward the end of the night than at the beginning. This would mean that you would not have the majority of your REM (and the apneas that are most likely to occur) during a sleep study, since very few people sleep a full 8 hours during a sleep study. In the sleep center where my study was done, they woke you up at 5 a.m. regardless. Not a very good way to sample sleep "behavior" it seems to me.

Rose

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:26 am

hey rose

thanks for all the info...when i went back for my titration, the tech told me i had gotten lots of rem where during my initial psg, i hadn't moved out of light sleep at all...i'd like to do some more reading on sleep stages, as i'm quite ignorant on the subject...still on the huge learning curve that my osa diagnosis has thrown me!

thanks again
sharon1965

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:41 am

Rose,
Thanks for the info. I just had a waking thought (as opposed to a sleep thought). Not only during the studies are we not seeing a complete picture. If most of our REM is at the end, then those who by lifestyle choose less than optimal sleep time are shorting themselves of not just sleep, but much needed REM sleep. Hmmm. Think I'll talk to my family about the importance of allowing more sleep time in their crazy busy lives.
Kathy

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:26 pm

What a great discussion to add to the "Dreams" topics links!

LINKS to dreaming - dreams - REM rebound
viewtopic.php?t=3524

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:45 pm

lucy555 wrote:
These problems could be warning signs:

A roommate notices pauses in your breathing that last more than 10 seconds, or snoring

Extreme fatigue during the day

Trouble remembering dreams

Unusual irritability

I read this in the article posted at the top of this forum about sleep apnea. I am confused, is it good or bad to remember dreams. The article says if you have problems remembering your dreams it is a problem, I thought it was the opposite. Any ideas from the veterans here?

think it says "trouble" remembering dreams.

I think remembering dreams is GOOD not bad. Dreams are only stored in short-term memory. If you wake up you will remember them, but you may forget by the time you get your clothes on. However, if you "repeat" the contents of the dream such as talking about it with a partner at breakfast you are more likely to remember the dream contents just by the fact of repeating it, the more you repeat it the longer that memory will remain.

Why do you remember some dreams and not others? It is thought that if you wake up from a dream you are in the REM state of sleep. If you transition of of REM say back to Deep Sleep and wake up there you won't remember the dream. There is even a watch you can now buy that will wake you during those nearly awake periods.

I've always felt better waking from a dream vs waking from a non-dream state, in fact that is what usually wakes me is the dream. But I usually say wow that felt great fall back asleep to get back to that dream only to wake later in a non-dream state and feel lousy.

Question about article in paper

Question about article in paper

Re: Question about article in paper

Remembering dreams

Dreams

End of night REM

Re: Question about article in paper