Heated Tube: Transition from Auto to Manual Settings

I have been using my heated tube on my AirSense 11 on the auto setting for a few months now, but I think it is set "too humid/wet".

I was tempted to move from the "Auto" setting to Manual, but I am not even sure where to start because I don't know what the baseline setting is for Auto so that I can dial things a little less humid. When I turn off "Auto" I can set the humidity level, and the tube temperature.

Any suggestions on how to start the process of moving from Auto to Manual, and where to start the settings? Unfortunately, I think the answer is going to be "it depends", since the heated tube will react differently depending on the temperature and humidity of the room itself, no?

Anyway, I thought I'd ask the question here since there is so much experience represented on the cpaptalk community.

MikeekiM wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:02 pm

I think the answer is going to be "it depends", since the heated tube will react differently depending on the temperature and humidity of the room itself, no?

Correct....it depends.

Auto setting for humidity is roughly equal to about a setting of 4 if doing humidity manually. So you might try the setting of 3 if trying manual settings.

Hose air temp is a bit more difficult to adjust accurately because your ambient room temp is a big factor in rain out either happening or being prevented. Rain out won't hurt you but it is highly annoying for sure...either the freight train going through the hose or the cold shower of moisture flying out the vent holes.

So hose air temp is a WAG (wild ass guess)... You want it warm enough to prevent condensation and while there is a chart with some settings advised....to be honest they are WAGs as well ...at least from my own personal experience.

Try a middle of the road hose air temp setting unless your bedroom is really on the cool side.
If your bedroom is really cool like mine is...you may need warmer.
I suggest you start with 74 degrees for hose air temp when going manual.

Thanks @Pugsy

This was more guidance than I expected, so I am pleased to at least have a starting point.

Is there any guidance on a temperature setting relative to the room temperature? In the wintertime, I try to keep my home at a very consistent 66F. Of course, having the thermostat set at 66F only ensures that the room temp doesn't go lower than 66F. The temps obviously can go higher. Would 74F still be a good starting point? And what behavior should I look out for? As an example, if I am at a level 3 humidity and a 74F hose temp, and it's still humid, should I be adjusting the humidity level or the temperature setting?

The humidity setting is what governs the amount of moisture you are getting.
The hose air temp is just for your own comfort and/or rain out or condensation prevention. Hose air temp helps determine if the moisture in the air is retained or let go and when it lets go that is when condensation happens.

I found this a while back
https://document.resmed.com/documents/p ... sa_eng.pdf
Scroll down a bit to the heated hose section.
It's a starting point only because it doesn't include room air temps...and of course doesn't account for hose management differences.
And it's not all that accurate.....I use the manual setting of 8 for humidity (I would snort water if I could) and I like a cold bedroom...according to that chart I am in never never land with hose air temps.
BUT....I use the hose air temp of 82....and I don't get rain out...but again use a short hose cozy and I route the entire hose under my bed covers. Pretty much everything except the mask at my nose gets covered up and insulated.
My bedroom has been averaging around 62 degrees lately. When the temps drop outside a lot I might see 55 degrees in the bedroom.
I am fairly certain if I routed everything outside the bed covers that I would be getting the cold shower and the freight train.
I suppose I could try warmer temp in the heated hose but I actually hate the hot air and had to come to sort of like the 82 degrees. I much prefer mid 70's hose air temp and while people say "just use less humidity"....My nose doesn't like less moisture and I get horrible allergy like symptoms when my nasal mucosa get dried out. Hence my snorting water.

Thanks for the further guidance and tips. I'll report back after I have had time to experiment (and have something to report back)!

Happy new year!

@Pugsy - Here's an update.

Last night I set to manual and set my humidity setting to 3 and my tube temperature to 72F.

I got the typical "popping" noises from my tube due to excess water and my mask cushion had more condensation on the inside than normal (when having my setting set to "Auto"). So given that information, what should my next move be? Should I bring my humidity setting down to 2 tonight? Or should I raise my tube temperature up a few notches?

Thanks again for your guidance and help.

MikeekiM wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:16 am

Last night I set to manual and set my humidity setting to 3 and my tube temperature to 72F.

I got the typical "popping" noises from my tube due to excess water and my mask cushion had more condensation on the inside than normal (when having my setting set to "Auto"). So given that information, what should my next move be? Should I bring my humidity setting down to 2 tonight? Or should I raise my tube temperature up a few notches?

I would increases the hose air temp if it were me but that is because I learned a long time ago that my nasal mucosa didn't like less moisture. That's why I now use the humidity setting of 8....and to manage condensation I use a combination of hose air temp and other insulating the hose/mask options.

Your choice though. You still have lots of room for increasing the hose air temp. I would suggest trying 4 degrees warmer since you had condensation in the hose itself as well as the mask.

Several options available explained here in posts number 2 and 3 of mine.
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t9403 ... -road.html
You are free to make your own choices.

Just remember that the condensation you are experiencing is simply Physics in action and warmer air holds onto more water than cooler air.

As for lowering the humidity setting as one of those options....your nasal mucosa may or may not be happy with that choice. Some people need more humidity than others to keep their nasal mucosa happy.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:30 am

MikeekiM wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:16 am

Last night I set to manual and set my humidity setting to 3 and my tube temperature to 72F.

I got the typical "popping" noises from my tube due to excess water and my mask cushion had more condensation on the inside than normal (when having my setting set to "Auto"). So given that information, what should my next move be? Should I bring my humidity setting down to 2 tonight? Or should I raise my tube temperature up a few notches?

I would increases the hose air temp if it were me but that is because I learned a long time ago that my nasal mucosa didn't like less moisture. That's why I now use the humidity setting of 8....and to manage condensation I use a combination of hose air temp and other insulating the hose/mask options.

Your choice though. You still have lots of room for increasing the hose air temp. I would suggest trying 4 degrees warmer since you had condensation in the hose itself as well as the mask.

Several options available explained here in posts number 2 and 3 of mine.
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t9403 ... -road.html
You are free to make your own choices.

Just remember that the condensation you are experiencing is simply Physics in action and warmer air holds onto more water than cooler air.

As for lowering the humidity setting as one of those options....your nasal mucosa may or may not be happy with that choice. Some people need more humidity than others to keep their nasal mucosa happy.

Yup, got it, thanks! Yet again, this is EXACTLY the guidance that I needed from you.

I know that ultimately I need to make my own choices that work for my particular situation, but your guidance acts as a starting point for me. So yes, I am going to likely experiment tonight by moving my tube temperature up four (4) degrees and see what difference it makes. I just needed some experience from you on the different levers to adjust with some logic as to why I would push and pull this lever versus that lever.

Another quick question. After all this experimentation and once I get things dialed in precisely how I want it. Does that all get tossed out of the window when the seasons change and my room temperature changes? My guess is yes (ugh). But I am hoping you tell me that once I have it dialed in properly, it is pretty much "set and forget"! Wishful thinking.

MikeekiM wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 08, 2024 1:52 pm

After all this experimentation and once I get things dialed in precisely how I want it. Does that all get tossed out of the window when the seasons change and my room temperature changes? My guess is yes (ugh). But I am hoping you tell me that once I have it dialed in properly, it is pretty much "set and forget"! Wishful thinking.

Might be more than just wishful thinking than you think it will be. There's no urgent need to change up stuff just because of the seasons. Main reason might be comfort and once you get used to settings that work well for you....no reason to change.

I just change hose temp as need to prevent the condensation as the seasons change and my own comfort.
My nasal mucosa needs don't change no matter what the season.
The machine will still attempt to deliver that chosen or needed amount of moisture despite the season or weather.
To be honest I probably haven't changed any of the humidity or hose air temp settings in probably 9 months (when I went from humidity setting of 6 to the setting of 8 ). I have kept the hose air temp setting as well but I have probably routed the hose under the bed covers more to help with the condensation issues that come with a humidity setting of 8 and a cold bedroom.

People tend to think that if the ambient humidity is high (like when it is raining) that they need to lower the humidity setting but they fail to realize the machine doesn't really care what the ambient humidity is because all that really affects is the amount of water consumed to attain the humidity setting choice.

So it can be a more "set and forget it" thing than we realize once we figure out what humidity setting our nasal mucosa needs or wants. People tend to over think all this and not realize that we really don't need to go changing things very much at all. It's unlikely that your nasal mucosa moisture needs will really change all that much.

I do prefer a cooler hose air temp so in the summer I might lower that hose air temp a little if I happen to think about it but I finally have sort of got used to the warmer air and it doesn't bug me so much so I haven't really needed or wanted to change that hose air temp. I am lazy....I don't go messing with settings because it requires effort that I just don't want to put out.

Another update: My updated changes to Humidity 3 and Temperature 76F seemed to improve things last night. No moisture in the tube (at least no meaningful moisture) and a bit of condensation inside my mask. I think I am going to keep it on this setting another evening or so and see if the results are consistent.

Question on temperature settings. I assume that the tube is somehow thermostat controlled, which means that it would try and keep the 76F temperature regardless of whether I introduce a "tube cozy" cover or not. The only difference would be that the heated tube wouldn't need to use as much energy to keep the tube at the 76F temperature. Am I right? Or will introducing a "tube cozy" cover potentially impact my results (and should I consider one)?

In any case, last night's results were very promising. I'll keep this thread updated.

Thanks again @Pugsy. Super helpful and informative.

MikeekiM wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 8:36 am

I assume that the tube is somehow thermostat controlled, which means that it would try and keep the 76F temperature regardless of whether I introduce a "tube cozy" cover or not. The only difference would be that the heated tube wouldn't need to use as much energy to keep the tube at the 76F temperature. Am I right? Or will introducing a "tube cozy" cover potentially impact my results (and should I consider one)?

This is correct. Adding a cozy to the heated hose just lets the hose use less electric energy in an effort to maintain the chosen heated hose temperature.

That said....we also have to remember that once that heated air leaves the heated hose it can start to cool down because it either goes to the mask or even another non heated hose if the mask utilizes a short hose after the heated hose connection.
Plus we also have the moisture in our own exhaled breaths into the mask that complicates things a bit since the air in the mask is going to be cooler than the air in the heated hose.

So what we have to do is use a heated hose temp that stays warm enough to prevent condensation at the short hose level (if a short hose is used) and/or at the mask level.
So either use warmer air still yet or add some sort of other insulation at the short hose or mask level to keep that air warmer....or warm enough to not allow condensation.
This is why I use a hose cozy on the short hose....and I could add a barrel cozy at the mask level if my other measures weren't successful in preventing condensation.

Update: 2nd night using the humidity 3 and 76F temp setting. Same results (and that's a good thing).

Will keep you updated, but so far I am optimistic!

Update: 3rd night on this setting and still achieving the same. No meaningful condensation or water in the tube. but a bit of condensation (but not enough for it to drip) in the mask.

Is this the right result I am trying to achieve? Or can I turn up the temperature a notch and try to get rid of more of the condensation. Last night my nose had a touch of congestion or breathing blockage so I used nasal strips for the first time.

It seemed to help get me to sleep, but by the time I woke up, the adhesive strip had come completely off of my skin due to the condensation/moisture. I am using an AirFit N20 nasal mask. Perhaps the nasal strips are really only fully effective when using a mask that does not cover my nose (like the AirFit P10 or N30).

Is it possible to use nasal strips with the N20, or is it pretty much a lost cause?

MikeekiM wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:37 am

Is it possible to use nasal strips with the N20, or is it pretty much a lost cause?

I have never used a mask like the N20 where the actual cushion fits over the end of the nose and touches anywhere near the nasal bridge area because I found out a long time ago that when something touches the nasal bridge area (where eyeglasses rest) that it caused me to have REALLY bad nasal congestion (that was immediately relieved if I removed the mask so I know for sure what the cause was).
So I don't know that it is a lost cause especially if you can keep the moisture from forming causing the nasal strips to come loose.
So....if it were me and just really wanted to continue using that mask, along with any nasal strips, I would have to prevent any condensation from happening and I would turn up the heated hose air temp OR figure out some other way to keep the air at the mask/face level warmer if possible.

MikeekiM wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:37 am

Or can I turn up the temperature a notch and try to get rid of more of the condensation. Last night my nose had a touch of congestion or breathing blockage so I used nasal strips for the first time.

More warmer air is needed to prevent any condensation. You already know that answer.
I guess a lot would depend on just how often you end up wanting to use those nasal strips.
You have to decide what is more annoying to you.....the warmer air or the condensation.
You have to decide if the N20 is your forever mask.

Have you looked at or tried other masks? Something like the AirFit N30 would let you use the nasal strips and if a little tiny bit of moisture formed in the mask it wouldn't be touching the strips to cause them to come loose.

Yup, you are absolutely right. I 100% know the cause/effect of warmer air = less moisture (thanks to you).

I guess I will experiment and see if I can find a setting that is comfortable AND is able to eliminate moisture in the mask.

Not sure I am married to the N20 yet, but we have been in a long term relationship!

I might need to start "dating" my ex-masks again. I have tried the P10 and the N30 before, but ended up landing on the N20. I may give those other masks another try at some point.

And if I can't use the nasal strips, I hear that I should also maybe experiment with a little Vicks Vaporub on a tissue placed at the CPAP air inlet to solve nasal congestion/blockage.