Severe mixed apnea at the age of 35

In re trend data wanted to see the parameter Session Times, but o. already picked up on where we want to go with that.

42 minutes till boarding but I hate typing on an android. I'm amazed how these kids just wing away with their thumbs and write a book in 30 seconds.

Or maybe they're just arbitrarily tapping the screen to make it look that way...

Herbert wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:45 am

I still consider those nights as good since I had no real periodic breathing. And "best" refers to best in AHI - not necessarily sleep quality

This is where Rubicon and you are (almost) talking across each other.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:16 am

OK so that's NOT PB, it's NOT CSR, it's SWJ which needs to be completely discounted from the discussion (or if you do want to include it, put it under "Sucky Notsleep").

My sleep quality generally doesn't feel very high, so it's hard for me to be objective about it.

Exactly.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:23 am

Anyway SWJ had nothing to do with breathing, it had to do with EEG (insert summary of sleep EEG here). If someone is transitioning back and forth from Wake to Stage 1 within an epoch, and the mess continues for a while (don't know if we ever decided on what a "while" was) then we'd call that SWJ.

Meanwhile, your breathing control center has to figure out how to act with all this going on.

In other words, (I think) it's your sleep quality creating the mess. Not your heart or your ability to keep a patent (i.e. open) airway.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:00 am

42 minutes till boarding but I hate typing on an android. I'm amazed how these kids just wing away with their thumbs and write a book in 30 seconds.

Or maybe they're just arbitrarily tapping the screen to make it look that way...

Ever read one of those books?

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:50 am

plus I don't want to get caught staring at my phone when I'm yelling at my wife to get off Facebook and admire 2000 year old wonders and/or talk to family. I mean, there's more to life than the internet...

2000 year old wonders in the US of A No need to reply.
And enjoy your vacation!

what about my last night? one of you had a look?

Herbert wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:33 am

what about my last night? one of you had a look?

I looked - but I don't know what to say to add to what you know already on your own.

does it look as bad as the others? any suggestions on what to improve? maybe in the end finally try asv?

ozij wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:20 am

2000 year old wonders in the US of A

I suppose there are a few 2000 year old wonders in the U.S., but we were actually in Europe for a few weeks.

Although NOW we're in The Heartland!

We really need to pop in to visit you one of these days. It's on the list.

Herbert wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:29 am

does it look as bad as the others? any suggestions on what to improve? maybe in the end finally try asv?

So in order:

Yes.

Depends on what you're looking to improve.

Go ahead. It ain't my money.

I asked you to post stuff. I'm waiting to see that.

In your Best Nights Ever While On Vacation Diatribe you only talked about AHI. If all you want is AHI 0.0, no problem, that's easy.

However, you don't say if your sleep is better-- and again, IMO it isn't.

TTBOMK, there is no xPAP machine out there that has a button that says "Good Sleep".

I didn't wake up and say "hey tonight i slept wonderful and i feel like i could run 10 miles" for a long time. I only know that I can sleep as long as I want, with company or without and mostly feel the same. it's mostly not horrible but also not great. Some days I need a nap, most I don't. So I just get along. Since I was diagnoesed with this central apnea bullshit, I thought I had the answer on why it is like it is. So in order to finally feel more rested and also to save my remaining health I wanted to work on it. AHI seemed to me like the figure that could at least give an idea on the quality of each night. That's why I focus on it. If this is all wrong, then please let me know what should be right.

And you asked me to post stuff, which I did. The "best" nights of the vacation and the trend data. or was there something else that I missed??

Herbert wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 08, 2023 12:16 am

AHI seemed to me like the figure that could at least give an idea on the quality of each night. That's why I focus on it. If this is all wrong, then please let me know what should be right.

Clearly I need to be more clear.

There are thousands of reasons why people do not feel rested or unable to run 10 miles. Bad sleep is only one of them.

There are hundreds of reasons why people have bad sleep. AHI is only one of them. And occasionally, completely worthless-- like if it's because of SWJ. There's no such thing as a "Wake" apnea. Or if there is, you got a REALLY big problem. Like you're getting ready to be dead.

To complete my thought about SWJ, what I, and others, call SWJ is really a guess (although having seen about xx million breaths with simultaneous EEG I think I've kinda got the hang of it). So while people would like to look at "The Number" and think they've solved one of life's mysteries (OK, sometimes it does work out that way) in the case of bad sleep one has to go through the data 10-20 breaths at a time to search for stuff.

So from my perspective, it would be helpful to submit:

The Session Times trend.

A paragraph from your wife (not you, her) describing her sleep.

A SleepHQ from you in a separate bed and room with no child responsibilities.

I'm a total fact and figure person, so for important topics I really prefer such clear statements with as less room for interpretation as possible (im the living German stereotype I guess). So thanks a lot. I really appreciate that.

Now I also finally got your point about swj. your guess is, that all the nonsense going on in my breathing is swj, correct? while I think probably a big proportion is, I'm very sure, that there's a lot of it that isn't. otherwise I would be awake most of the night, right? I mean generally this is possible, but unfortunate had such episodes when I was really stressed out by this topic. so I think I would realize it, if is was like that right now because back then i felt a lot more horrible and nights were really rough. Another counter argument against the theory of all my strange breathing patterns being swj is my smartwatch. I know those measurements are mostly crap and nothing compared to a lab study with eeg and so on. but solely looking on movement and pulse I think at least the awake recognition is relatively accurate. most of the nights it matches very well with my memory of arousals. and for many nights my watch says, I had only one or two bigger arrousals.

If I would ask my wife to write a review of her sleep, she would tell you it's total crap as well. only for her it's due to our little daughter which wants to breastfeed every few hours and has a very unstable sleep still. Also if you would argue now that its the same for me: unfortunately not, as my journey woth sleepcapnea and bad sleep started 1 year earlier before we got the kid.

But what I will take from your post is: Tonight I will pack my machine and move to the couch for a few days, maybe a week. Then we can have another look on the data and see if anything changes.

OK well let's keep Plan B available.



What "The Number" doesn't tell you.

That's AHI 0.0.

IMO it's not good sleep.

In the "good" nights, there is a lot of waxing and waning. IDK if it's the chicken or the egg, nor if ASV will kill it (although it probably will).

Easy for me to say go ahead and drop a pile of Euros on that thing, but IIWM and all other efforts fail, I'd do it.

Herbert wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:50 am

Now I also finally got your point about swj. your guess is, that all the nonsense going on in my breathing is swj, correct? while I think probably a big proportion is, I'm very sure, that there's a lot of it that isn't.

Word.

And even in that big pile of CAs where we "know" you're awake-- w/o EEG you can't definitely say that. "Real" SWJ is a back and forth transition from sleep to wake and has a lot of breathing instability. Chicken/egg? Doesn't matter. An ASV will club it to death regardless.

Will you "feel better"?

Can't guarantee that one.

https://sleephq.com/public/8580de98-4e1 ... 6fa293ecec

That's last night. In a separate room on a hard mattress. Sleep felt quite okay. Woke up a few times. But no potty breaks. When I woke up I didn't feel refreshed. When I look at the data for me it doesn't look it's got anything to do with either the mattress nor my wife/kid. But let's see what you think-