Used cpap Legal in europe?

Hi.
I'm possibly affected by sleep apnea. By reading all the stories here, it seems that getting a cpap through the medical system is a long journey (4~6 months?).
I need a working solution asap in 1/2 weeks and am not worried by OSCAR or titration.
What's the legal risk of buying a used cpap without a prescription in Europe? Honestly, I do not see anything immoral in buying a cpap wo prescription.
I wonder if this law is even remotely enforced.
Thanks in advance

Edit: I'm from Italy

Europe is many countries, not one.
There's a medical risk you're running by a) self-diagnosing b)deciding the solution to your problem is a CPAP c) not even knowing which type of CPAPs exist and how to check if they're worth your money.

spaghetti wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:24 am

I need a working solution asap in 1/2 weeks and am not worried by OSCAR or titration.

What do you mean by "not worried"?

Why not search for a local, Italian speaking CPAP forum, and ask there about the types of devices used there, and whether others have bought used, etc.?

Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately, there is no "active" Italian cpap forum. EU countries all follow similar laws.

Whether I have OSA or CSA, frankly I do not know. With the pulse oximeter, It is clear my heart rate has rapid surges during the night (no drops in oxygen saturation), and I have had some episodes of waking up out of breath, in a semi-conscious state, and I have frequent sleep paralysis (plus being tired with 9hr of sleep and having consistent sleep hygiene).
Of course, I have already done blood tests and antibodies tests for covid and other diseases, with the help of my doctor.
I have done an at-home sleep study, to which I do not yet have the results (and it's already been a month!).

It seems that PAP therapy is either CPAP or BiPAP, where BiPAP is preferred for CSA. I've seen that Resmed is the preferred brand, and the most sold CPAP is the Resmed Airsense 10.
I am guessing a good choice would be the Airsense 10 Autoset for her, which is an auto CPAP and is also used to treat CSA.

About OSCAR, by "not worried" (not a great choice of word, must say) I mean that I have already installed it and have downloaded the documentation. And for titration, there is a protocol to follow, that's it (and with the Autoset, the protocol is already integrated into the machine).

Given that, even when buying an auto CPAP without being followed by a doctor... you're still in the hands of doctors. I am talking about all those doctors who designed and prototyped the CPAP hardware and software.

I see you are a CPAP "veteran" and I find your opinion extremely important. What is your advice?

Ok, there are other Pap's besides just C- or Apap and bipap, and they're used for different reasons... something you learn about when lab testing for apnea (which I seriously suggest you have done). Don't worry about CSA just yet - real CSA (or even mixed) is pretty rare even if a lot of us get a few centrals just as we're going to sleep or waking up - we call them sleep-wake junk. You'd have central apnea (whatever else you might or might not have) only if you had lots of them all night.

At least get your home study results before tweaking anything- post here and experts will look at them and then suggest what they may feel needs tweaking. I can't tell you anything about Italy, but people all over the world use Cpap even if they end up importing from somewhere else... but you're not 'there' yet and even if you had a machine now, depending on which, pressures and more need to be set before using... guessing is not a good idea.

spaghetti wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:44 am

I am guessing a good choice would be the Airsense 10 Autoset for her, which is an auto CPAP and is also used to treat CSA.

You would be guessing incorrectly because the AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her can't do anything for CSA that the other AirSense 10 models could do. What made you think it could?

For true central apnea treatment the machine needs to be able to deliver a back up rate breath in the event that a person isn't breathing on their own (which is what central apnea is) and none of the AirSense 10 or 11 models can offer a back up rate.

Note: CSA is usually diagnosed by a medical professional--not by a home test.
There can also be sleep-wake junk (SWJ), which can be mistaken for central apnea;
but it may decrease or even stop as you get used to cpap.
It is best to wait for your results before pulling out your wallet.
Many people do quite well with recycled machines--which are often available,
as too many people do not continue treatment because they wimp out.
I know of no one who has been penalized by law for buying, or
using a no longer new machine.

spaghetti wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:44 am

I have done an at-home sleep study, to which I do not yet have the results (and it's already been a month!).

A pity it takes so long, but you have to wait for the analysis of the sleep study in order to know what your problem is, and what is needed to solve it.

spaghetti wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:24 am

What's the legal risk of buying a used cpap without a prescription in Europe?

Zero risk to you. The risk would be to the licensed medical supplier who would sell to someone who has no prescription.

From whom would you buy a machine, mask, hoses and filters?

If you buy a ResMed AutoSet S9, AS10 or AS11 (Make sure it is AutoSet. For Her is not so important.), the only risk would be if you have the less common Central Sleep Apnea. Then, you would need a different type of machine.

I see a lot of good pastabilities for you. If you can find a clean, low-hours AutoSet, I would go for it. You seem to be the type who can take control of your therapy and succeed. Many of us who had doctors, in-lab sleep studies, and respiratory technicians, still had to figure out what kind of mask works and what the optimal machine settings were. You can do the same, especially with this forum to help you.

Best of luck in getting pasta the early hurdles!

Keep in touch!

Zero risk to you. The risk would be to the licensed medical supplier who would sell to someone who has no prescription.

We don't know anything about Italian law or EU rules. It MIGHT be a risk to the private seller. Or not. Possibly you don't even need a prescriptions--you can research the rules in your country--a supplier can tell you (if suppliers there are to be believed more than they are in the US).

Why do you need "a working solution ASAP in 1/2 weeks"? If you have sleep apnea, you've had it for years. The wait is hard once you've resolved to do something about it, but in all likelihood you won't die in the next 1-2 weeks from it. Talk to your doctor about your concerns about how long this is taking and what your options are.

At least get the results of your sleep study. You could have something else entirely, and that needs to be assessed.

Janknitz wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:26 pm

We don't know anything about Italian law or EU rules.

"We" don't, but I do.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:27 pm

Janknitz wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:26 pm

We don't know anything about Italian law or EU rules.

"We" don't, but I do.

I'm impressed. I didn't know you were an Italian lawyer or healthcare provider living in Chicago, or that using words like "pastabilities" made you an expert.

Janknitz wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:35 pm

I'm impressed. I didn't know you were an Italian lawyer or healthcare provider living in Chicago, or that using words like "pastabilities" made you an expert.

There are many things you don't know about me and my background including where I grew up, all the places I have lived, and where I now live. But that's OK, I know very little about you.

The legal risks assumed by one's actions can differ from one local place to another local place, and words like "legal" and "illegal" can even have various meanings in different contexts.

Is it "legal" to drive 56mph in a 55mph zone in Chicago?

Either way, the outcome might depend on which granny pulls you over and what mood she's in, among other things.

I'm not sure overall concepts like "legal" and "illegal" even have the same general connotation in Italy and in Germany, for example.

Gray-market goods are often a gray area--here, there, or anywhere.

A general rule of thumb is that legal advice obtained in a medical forum is worth about the same as medical advice found in a law forum.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:28 pm

I see a lot of good pastabilities for you.

That's raviolting

wrote: A general rule of thumb is that legal advice obtained in a medical forum is worth about the same as medical advice found in a law forum.

I know a guy who knows a guy who knows un tizio.