How to determine Good Sleep?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Pugsy
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:40 am

All the flagged events are arousal/awake breathing related. I couldn't find one real asleep flagged event.

You did get some limited solid blocks of sleep but unfortunately had much more that wasn't and some blocks of arousal/awake breathing were fairly prolonged.
As Rubicon would say ...."bad sleep"....and not caused by sleep apnea would be my personal opinion.
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Billymadison420
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Billymadison420 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:46 am

Pugsy wrote:All the flagged events are arousal/awake breathing related. I couldn't find one real asleep flagged event.

You did get some limited solid blocks of sleep but unfortunately had much more that wasn't and some blocks of arousal/awake breathing were fairly prolonged.
As Rubicon would say ...."bad sleep"....and not caused by sleep apnea would be my personal opinion.
I agree. That laceration on my nose keeps opening every night. I’ve tried the large medium and small nasal attachment. Part of me thinks maybe I need to go to the full mask at this point. The cut just can’t and won’t heal up with the constant nose mask irritation.

So I know consciously that was bothering me quite a bit of the night. That’s probably a lot of the arousals.


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Pugsy
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:49 am

Rubicon wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:00 am
Pugsy wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:10 pm

It's not called awake apnea after all.
Word.
As usual you lost me here but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the mirtazpine side effects potential for playing a role in the sleep maintenance insomnia and bad sleep we have going on here?????
Of course the prescribing doctor has said that it shouldn't mess with sleep but everything I have read and understand about it and other mood altering meds is that it most certainly can mess with sleep as well as daytime unwanted symptoms.
What I have read points to potentially messing with the sleep stages and causing insomnia and daytime fatigue and drowsiness. While not technically a SSRI it sure seems to behave sort of like one at least with effects on sleep.

Your thoughts????
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Pugsy
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:50 am

Billymadison420 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:46 am
Part of me thinks maybe I need to go to the full mask at this point. The cut just can’t and won’t heal up with the constant nose mask irritation.

So I know consciously that was bothering me quite a bit of the night. That’s probably a lot of the arousals.
Pain messes with sleep....been there and done that.

Do you have a full face mask in your possession right now? If so, which one?
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Billymadison420
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Billymadison420 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:56 am

Pugsy wrote:
Billymadison420 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:46 am
Part of me thinks maybe I need to go to the full mask at this point. The cut just can’t and won’t heal up with the constant nose mask irritation.

So I know consciously that was bothering me quite a bit of the night. That’s probably a lot of the arousals.
Pain messes with sleep....been there and done that.

Do you have a full face mask in your possession right now? If so, which one?
I don’t but the healthcare company that got me my Resmed does. I could call this morning.


edit: I ordered the F20 using my HSA through work. I will give that a shot. I guess thats good incase I am mouth breathing during the night when I have nasal congestions, and I will avoid the pain of the laceration, and that can heal up!

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Rubicon
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Rubicon » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:25 am

Pugsy wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:49 am

As usual you lost me here but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the mirtazpine side effects potential for playing a role in the sleep maintenance insomnia and bad sleep we have going on here????
As you might remember from a LONG time ago, mirtazapine is a good AD, especially as it relates to sleep apnea, as it reduces AHI by half.

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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:32 am

As much as I like the full face masks that are sort of the hybrid variety I don't think that would be a good choice for you right now with the sore at your nostril area. I am afraid that those kind of masks will just rub on the area more.
So something that doesn't touch the area where the sore is would be probably a better choice.
Don't ask me which one though....I don't even own a full face mask. I have zero experience of any magnitude with any of them. Do look at the AirTouch F20 if looking. I have at least put that mask on my face to get the feel for it and the memory foam isn't bad at all.
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Rubicon » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:33 am

In re: OP's comment about REM-rebound for a week and a half (probably, not as REM rebound is only like a day or two):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 0treatment.

Yeah that 'tazapine is funny stuff.

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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:36 am

Rubicon wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:25 am
Pugsy wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:49 am

As usual you lost me here but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the mirtazpine side effects potential for playing a role in the sleep maintenance insomnia and bad sleep we have going on here????
As you might remember from a LONG time ago, mirtazapine is a good AD, especially as it relates to sleep apnea, as it reduces AHI by half.
Yeah but does it reduce the AHI by half by simply messing with sleep so that people don't get much sleep to have many apneas in???? If I stay awake all night because of meds then my AHI is going to be 0 kind of thing.
Or does it physically alter the sagging airway tissues in some way???
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Billymadison420
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Billymadison420 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:37 am

Rubicon wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:33 am
In re: OP's comment about REM-rebound for a week and a half (probably, not as REM rebound is only like a day or two):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 0treatment.

Yeah that 'tazapine is funny stuff.
I went without last night. Definitely more tired (I think I slept less deeply than WITH mirtazipine) but I feel less groggy/heavy/foggy than I would WITH mirtazipine. I do wonder what a full night of good sleep without mirtazipne would feel like.

I love with Mirtazpine does for my mental health. But trying to get out of bed with it, is HARD.
Last edited by Billymadison420 on Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Billymadison420 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:39 am

Pugsy wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:32 am
As much as I like the full face masks that are sort of the hybrid variety I don't think that would be a good choice for you right now with the sore at your nostril area. I am afraid that those kind of masks will just rub on the area more.
So something that doesn't touch the area where the sore is would be probably a better choice.
Don't ask me which one though....I don't even own a full face mask. I have zero experience of any magnitude with any of them. Do look at the AirTouch F20 if looking. I have at least put that mask on my face to get the feel for it and the memory foam isn't bad at all.
thats what I got! The Airtouch F20 :D

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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Rubicon » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:54 am

Pugsy wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:36 am

Yeah but does it reduce the AHI by half by simply messing with sleep so that people don't get much sleep to have many apneas in???? If I stay awake all night because of meds then my AHI is going to be 0 kind of thing.
LOL!! Maybe so! Later studies couldn't duplicate the early stuff, but they seem to be playing around with it again, as well as a couple others, and combos.

Originally I thought taking ADMs would reduce REM and consequently AHI in REM-dependent OSA, but haven't followed it. More interested in fishing these days.

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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:22 am

More interested than fishing?? Can't imagine why. :lol: For me it's been my flower garden/butterfly garden this year.
The addition of the SCS thing this year has let me feel like doing more.

Anyhow I always thought that to reduce AHI by taking a medication to reduce a sleep stage wasn't probably the best way to go if we are to believe all those people telling us that we need each sleep stage and need so and so amount for the restorative powers of sleep to work their magic. To me it is just swapping problems and the end result is we still have a sleep problem and still feel like crap problem.

I guess the only way to know for sure what a medication side effect might be doing is to remove the medication and see what happens.
But then we run the risk of the very problem the medication is designed for helping with then rearing its ugly head and messing with sleep and how we feel. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of thing. It's the main reason I haven't advocated a medication change before now. Then there is the other side of the coin....it wouldn't be impossible for the OSA to be the cause of what was first thought to be anxiety/depression that the meds were originally prescribed for and if the OSA is treated optimally then the symptoms of depression/anxiety itself might abate and meds not be needed. It's a well known fact that anxiety/depression symptoms are a known side effect from untreated OSA and if the OSA is treated the symptoms of anxiety/depression could go away simply with OSA treatment.
But then there are the very real anxiety/depression symptoms that are unrelated to OSA that people can also be having that actually need these sorts of mood meds. The proverbial rock and a hard place thing and my crystal ball is on the link again so I don't know which came first.

Have fun fishing. I have fished all my life because my dad was an avid fisherman. Grew up fishing or walking the river banks hunting for bait in the form of crawfish. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that my dad's admonition for "shhhhh...the fish will hear you and not bite" was just a way to shut up a talkative child. :lol:

Thanks for you input.


Rubicon wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:54 am
Pugsy wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:36 am

Yeah but does it reduce the AHI by half by simply messing with sleep so that people don't get much sleep to have many apneas in???? If I stay awake all night because of meds then my AHI is going to be 0 kind of thing.
LOL!! Maybe so! Later studies couldn't duplicate the early stuff, but they seem to be playing around with it again, as well as a couple others, and combos.

Originally I thought taking ADMs would reduce REM and consequently AHI in REM-dependent OSA, but haven't followed it. More interested in fishing these days.
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Billymadison420
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by Billymadison420 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:12 am

I am not really sure what to do. I am close to a nervous breakdown. I need sleep badly. I haven't had good sleep in over a year. I know it is probably in part to having Tinnitus. While I have adjusted fully during the day, at night it keeps me awake. Am I sure of this. No. I am not totally sure that is the case, but I am just looking for things at this point.

I had 3-4 days with CPAP where I felt a bunch better. That was on the mirtazpine. I don't know if I have Narcolepsy on top of this like I mentioned in my original thread. I am calling my sleep specialist today to move up my appt.

I am taking care of my dying mother with ALS. I have to be present in my marriage. i have a full time job. I can't cope any longer feeling like this. I feel like I need to go on temporary disability.

I am also worried because of the TInnitus I will always have sleep trouble. I have habituated so much and its not a problem during the day, but it could be at night.

I am sorry to vent. I have been feeling this way for over 16 months now. I need help :oops:

If I don't take my mirtazpine I won't sleep at night, with the ringing. So it seems I am screwed.
Last edited by Billymadison420 on Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

lynninnj
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Re: How to determine Good Sleep?

Post by lynninnj » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:26 am

Billymadison420 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:12 am
I am not really sure what to do. I am close to a nervous breakdown. I need sleep badly. I haven't had good sleep in over a year. I know it is probably in part to having Tinnitus. While I have adjusted fully during the day, at night it keeps me awake. Am I sure of this. No. I am not totally sure that is the case, but I am just looking for things at this point.

I had 3-4 days with CPAP where I felt a bunch better. That was on the mirtazpine. I don't know if I have Narcolepsy on top of this like I mentioned in my original thread. I am calling my sleep specialist today to move up my appt.

I am taking care of my dying mother with ALS. I have to be present in my marriage. i have a full time job. I can't cope any longer feeling like this. I feel like I need to go on temporary disability.

I am also worried because of the TInnitus I will always have sleep trouble. I have habituated so much and its not a problem during the day, but it could be at night.

I am sorry to vent. I have been feeling this way for over 16 months now. I need help :oops:
Billy I’m still pretty new here but I know a couple things.

Sometimes antibiotics can cause tinnitus. Sometimes working in a loud environment can be the problem. I lost my mom in December and I can only imagine the stress you were going through right now. I know my blood pressure was up and when it was I could hear it pulsating in my ears. That just made the anxiety even more stressful. I wouldn’t be surprised if your blood pressure is high.

I think if it is the CPAP will probably help lower your blood pressure. Just have to get over that magical hump!

I wouldn’t be surprised if the sore on your nose what is keeping you awake. Someone posted info for newbies among the stickies at the top of this board. One suggestion was a product called Lanisoh which is basically 100% lanolin may help heal a sore a little faster. It may also help keep newly forming issues from becoming full-blown issues with the skin. You can find a tube of the stuff at Walmart in the breast-feeding section it cost about $10 for tube. A little bitty bit of this covers a large area. I don’t think he would want to put it on right before bedtime but you would want to put it on first thing the morning after you shower and shave or do whatever. It keeps the moisture in it does not add moisture to the skin. It may interfere with the seal if you try to put it on right before you go to sleep.

It sounds like you’ve got a lot of stuff going on. Nobody likes to hear it’s all in your head but in a way some of it is. And the lack of sleep is making everything more difficult for you. maybe you need to see if you can find a way to bring in an outside health aide to give yourself a little bit of a break if you were being the primary caretaker. I really don’t know the situation but if you are still working maybe take a couple of days off I just go to a hotel room for a night or some thing. I don’t know if that’s possible for you but it sounds like you need a break.

It’s easy to say don’t give up but don’t give up.

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