CPAP Dependency Guidance

Hello

I am 39 year old 375 lb male who 12 years ago was classified with severe obstructive sleep apnea with 83.2 events per hours. I have slept with my CPAP machine each day for the last 12 years until it has recently broken. I was lucky enough to have a friend who had an extra one that is also old, that i was able to begin using while i begin through the process to obtain a new CPAP machine.

The problem i have though is that i am completely dependant on CPAP machine. Like many others that i have read, I cannot have a single night of relevant sleep let alone peaceful without it. My Dr had me do an At home Sleep study which came back as "Inconclusive." I have now recently done another sleep study that ha come back with "Benign intermittent snoring, with normal sleep." The results show that i slept for 244 of 473 Minutes, with .5 minutes in stage 3 and 7 minutes in REM sleep or 97.1% of my sleep in Stage 1 or Stage 2. The Study only shows 2.9 Events per hour. Essentially i am being told that I no longer have Sleep Apnea.

In no way to I believe these results as i am not able to sleep a night without the machine. Also the Logic just states that i am 12 years older and 10 lbs heavier than my first sleep study, I don't believe that miraculously i have gotten rid of what was severe sleep apnea. The doctor is interpreting numbers and i get that but to me, (obviously no medical background) these numbers institute someone that is dependant on machine and did not reach a level of sleep to demonstrate a proper level of apnea that i have in previous study. But i cannot get the doctor or his team to look past what he sees and that is 2.9 events in a study.

My question to the community here is, Has anyone experienced this? How do i get the doctor to move forward with me? Is the only option i have to Purchase a CPAP machine out of my own pocket?

Any thoughts, guidance, help that you may of had in past would be appreciated. Thank you.

Had you by chance used the borrowed cpap up to the night of the home study?
Meaning did you ever have a break in cpap therapy at all immediately before the home sleep study?

Hi Pugsy, thanks for the question.

No, i never had a break. I was never instructed not too, I went right into the Home and Technician driven Sleep study immediately from using CPAP Therapy. But i think that raises a good point for me to go back and look to leverage a new study but try to fight through a few days without it. Do you have any experience on how long generally to be off it leading up? I have been off it now, 3 days (1 day it broke, 1 day for home sleep study and 1 day for in-house sleep study) and all 3 of those days were a scary night sleep of what was not peaceful sleep by anymeans and constantly waking myself up.

Anywhere from 1 night to 2 weeks from what I read (depending on who is doing the writing). There was some discussion not long ago about this very thing on this forum
I always called it "the holdover effect" but I think there is a more "medical" term but I forget what it is.
Maybe someone here will remember.

Did the home study actually have leads on your face and head? If not, I question exactly how they came up with actual sleep times.
If you didn't sleep much that might explain the lower AHI.
Also since you didn't get all that much REM (if you did have EEG leads on your face and head) it wouldn't be impossible for your OSA to be markedly worse in REM (which is common) and just didn't show up because not much REM.

It is also possible that you woke frequently because of the apnea event maybe starting to happen but the awakening stopped the progression of that apnea event into something that met criteria for a flag.
If you had an arousal before criteria was med for flagged event then the sleep study would/could show a false low score.
There's a certain criteria that has to be met to earn a flag and if you woke up before that criteria was met then there wouldn't be a flag.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:27 pm

Maybe someone here will remember.

I posted this:
viewtopic/t184245/Cease-CPAP-Use-Two-We ... 5#p1410427

But Rubicon says two days is plenty, and I tend to believe him in all things practical and reasonable, myself: viewtopic/t184245/Cease-CPAP-Use-Two-We ... 0#p1410497

lazarus wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:17 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:27 pm

Maybe someone here will remember.

I posted this:
viewtopic/t184245/Cease-CPAP-Use-Two-We ... 5#p1410427

But Rubicon says two days is plenty, and I tend to believe him in all things practical and reasonable, myself: viewtopic/t184245/Cease-CPAP-Use-Two-We ... 0#p1410497

Thanks Jeff.
I couldn't remember and just don't have the time to go looking for it.
Like you I would tend to go with what Rubicon says since he used to be in the business.

I got a mole problem...so had to go to town to get nuclear bombs for the damn moles...now to go outside and go killing some moles. They are destroying my yard and I have already twisted one ankle walking in a soft spot.
They got 40 acres plus to go play in and they want to mess where I walk and mow....nuclear bomb time.

When you make your yard that nice, critters spread the word and move in, I reckon.

Might have to trade a dog for a few cats?

Decent doctors should know that spontaneous healing of moderate-to-severe OSA just ain't a thing. Make the numbers "prove" it to the insurance people any way necessary, I say.

lazarus wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:44 pm

Might have to trade a dog for a few cats?

I have 2 full time outside kitties.
Then 2 that are inside/outside kitties.

I have seen one of the outside kitties eating mice and moles....but I guess I have too many to make much of a dent.
And I have treated a large portion of the yard for the grubs that the moles like but it's damn near impossible when you live out in the country to do an adequate job.

The other kitties I haven't actually seen them work but they tell me that they are working hard.
I know if I get a mouse in the house it never lasts long. Between the cats and my plugging up every hole I could find in this 70 year old house...inside mice problems are rare now.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:33 pm

I got a mole problem...so had to go to town to get nuclear bombs for the damn moles...now to go outside and go killing some moles.

think of them as cpaptalk.com trolls.

jrd42 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:09 pm

The problem i have though is that i am completely dependant on CPAP machine. Like many others that i have read, I cannot have a single night of relevant sleep let alone peaceful without it.

You are no more "dependant[sic]" on CPAP than you are dependent on eyeglasses.

You notice that you sleep like crap without it, (which is what you were doing beforehand, you'd just gotten used to it, just as you do if you take off your glasses, then everything is out of focus.

If he depends on it then he's dependent... didn't say addicted or anything.

Julie wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:28 pm

If he depends on it then he's dependent... didn't say addicted or anything.

Please just stop.

That's not how the term "dependency" is used by people in this context.

Julie wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:28 pm

dependent

To quote Wilhuff Tarkin from the book version of Episode IV, "Let us not bandy semantics."

Maybe the OP is in an HMO, where the motivation is to save money--not people.
We have heard many accusations that a positive dx is a scam.
I guess a phony negative is even more likely--considering the money . . .

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:34 pm

Maybe the OP is in an HMO, where the motivation is to save money--not people.
We have heard many accusations that a positive dx is a scam.
I guess a phony negative is even more likely--considering the money . . .

I've heard lots of stories from people who have had false negatives... false positives are rare though,