have tried so many masks

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:33 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:32 pm
onward60 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:52 am
If this is mild and fixing the apnea isn't going to fix my problem, then I wonder why I am going through so much stress and difficulty trying to find a mask that works. I'm very discouraged. And very, very tired. If my apnea is mild, why am I so tired? I don't understand this.
The study results show mild obstructive apnea with relatively minor desats (blood-oxygen levels below normal). CPAP could fix the apnea if the mask problems could be solved.

Here is my recommendation. Take a two-week hiatus from CPAP. When you go to bed, try to avoid back-sleeping. Sleep on your sides or stomach. We can give you some tips to avoid back-sleeping, but avoiding it entirely is difficult. You might consider avoiding back-sleeping a good part of the night to be a success. Which position are you accustomed to sleeping in?

The reason for avoiding back-sleeping is that obstructive sleep apnea is most severe in this position. Gravity is pulling the tongue and soft palate directly into the airway. In the other positions, the effect is not as great.

If you decide to take a break from CPAP, come back to this thread in a week or two and let us know how things are going.

BTW, did you ever say why you sought a sleep study to begin with?
Sorry, I'm getting a little mixed up on the thread.

I was always a side sleeper my whole life. Not long after after menopause, I began to have such laxity in my joints that it was painful to sleep on my side. It was very hard, but I forced myself to learn to sleep on my back so the pain stopped waking me up over and over. I can't sleep more than a few minutes on my side without the pain waking me. I have to sleep on my back. :(

I have been so tired for so long and after menopause could not sleep at all without medications (been through the gamut of meds and their terrible side effects).
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:41 pm

onward60 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:33 pm
Not long after after menopause, I began to have such laxity in my joints that it was painful to sleep on my side. It was very hard, but I forced myself to learn to sleep on my back so the pain stopped waking me up over and over. I can't sleep more than a few minutes on my side without the pain waking me.
Oh, so sorry. :(

What about stomach sleeping? Have you tried it?

Here is an excellent description of the correct positioning for stomach sleeping - http://www.uarsrelief.com/sleeppositions.html

The other option is sleeping nearly sitting up with the help of an adjustable bed or a recliner.

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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:48 pm

I found this: "Conclusions In SDB, nondesaturating events are independently associated with objective daytime sleepiness, beyond the effect of desaturating events." (https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/ ... 52/4209297)

Would someone with a working brain tell me if I'm reading this correctly? I think it says that apnea without desaturation causes daytime sleepiness. And that young, non-obese women are more likely to have SDB without hypoxia. (I'm not young but I'm thin.) And that SDB without apoxia is still a problem. Right? Just trying to get motivated to keep on trying. Clock is ticking until they take my rental machine away for failing to use it.
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:54 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:41 pm
onward60 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:33 pm
Not long after after menopause, I began to have such laxity in my joints that it was painful to sleep on my side. It was very hard, but I forced myself to learn to sleep on my back so the pain stopped waking me up over and over. I can't sleep more than a few minutes on my side without the pain waking me.
Oh, so sorry. :(

What about stomach sleeping? Have you tried it?

Here is an excellent description of the correct positioning for stomach sleeping - http://www.uarsrelief.com/sleeppositions.html

The other option is sleeping nearly sitting up with the help of an adjustable bed or a recliner.
I think my physical therapist would have a fit if I tried stomach sleeping! And so would my neck. Recliners are painful, but good idea about the bed. I may have to look into that some day. But funds are very, very tight right now. The mandibular advancement device cost me my downpayment for my next car fund. :( And I'm driving an '03! :cry:
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

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Julie
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by Julie » Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:57 pm

Well, desats aren't everything - not nec. diagnostic or not for OSA, just one more thing used in putting it together. 88 is the (arbitrary?) low level of normal so if someone goes lower for any length of time it can be counted as a desat, but yours was so small, I wouldn't put much store in it by itself. Seeing as your daughter's also had problems though, I wonder if there isn't some low level other thing going on (I know what you said :) between you - has anyone looked at your labs etc. together? My inner 'House' is reaching!

Oh, and something I wrote long ago for someone or other here -

"I sleep alone ('cept for my cat) and so can get away with this - I cut a 3" wide, 4" deep and 1' long 'trench' in my memory foam mattress starting at the head and going towards the foot, with an electric knife, and rounded top edges with scissors. I have a FF mask and when sleeping on my front with my head turned right, the mask dips into the trench diagonally or more vertically, avoiding a very sore neck in the a.m. I've also cut and fiddled with sheets to accommodate things, but have been sleeping like this for years, and so far so good. Important to mention is that my particular mask's vent holes are higher on the mask than most (which are usually at the elbow), so foam or sheet don't block holes but probably would for other masks."

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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:01 pm

Julie wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:57 pm
Well, desats aren't everything - not nec. diagnostic or not for OSA, just one more thing used in putting it together. 88 is the (arbitrary?) low level of normal so if someone goes lower for any length of time it can be counted as a desat, but yours was so small, I wouldn't put much store in it by itself. Seeing as your daughter's also had problems though, I wonder if there isn't some low level other thing going on (I know what you said :) between you - has anyone looked at your labs etc. together? My inner 'House' is reaching!

Oh, and something I wrote long ago for someone or other here -

"I sleep alone ('cept for my cat) and so can get away with this - I cut a 3" wide, 4" deep and 1' long 'trench' in my memory foam mattress starting at the head and going towards the foot, with an electric knife, and rounded top edges with scissors. I have a FF mask and when sleeping on my front with my head turned right, the mask dips into the trench diagonally or more vertically, avoiding a very sore neck in the a.m. I've also cut and fiddled with sheets to accommodate things, but have been sleeping like this for years, and so far so good. Important to mention is that my particular mask's vent holes are higher on the mask than most (which are usually at the elbow), so foam or sheet don't block holes but probably would for other masks."
That's an interesting idea about looking at the labs together. We've had very different kinds of labs, though. She has digestive issues she cannot solve. I solved mine - Celiac - years ago. Her labs do not show it. Yet she has worse digestive issues than I ever had. I will try to remember to bring this idea up with her. Right now she's sick in bed. She teaches 3rd grade and just got her COVID booster yesterday. Went home sick at lunch. Probably the booster? She didn't react to the first two, so I'm surprised.

I'm scheduled to get both my shingles and my COVID booster this week. I wonder if that is a bad plan.

I have an air bed. I think cutting it would have an entirely different effect! :lol:
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:09 pm

Woo ho! I just figured out how to upload an avatar. This is a very sweet cat I used to have hanging out on my kids' swing set in our backyard when we lived in the country. Happier times.
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

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Julie
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by Julie » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:31 pm

No, don't cut your airbed :cry: , maybe find a 2nd hand massage table (folding) that you could try out face down?

Don't assume daughter's situation is due to booster - enuf of those people around to do that and how would it help anyway? : :roll:
Don't think that getting the Shingles shot (my 2nd's due in '23) and Covid together would be a problem, but ask your MD.

Love your ex stray! My avatar's one from 30 yrs ago (the cat, not ...), but present one's a black shorthair, Ecco (felis) at 14, without whom I'd lose my mind entirely - helps to have someone to do for! :D
Last edited by Julie on Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:33 pm

onward60 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:01 pm
I have an air bed. I think cutting it would have an entirely different effect!
:lol: :lol:

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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:10 pm

Julie wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:31 pm

Love your ex stray! My avatar's one from 30 yrs ago (the cat, not ...), but present one's a black shorthair, Ecco (felis) at 14, without whom I'd lose my mind entirely - helps to have someone to do for! :D
She was a farm cat that we ended up adopting. She was a sweetheart. I'm so glad you can have a kitty!
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:39 pm

After practicing in the daytime with different masks, I decided to try at night with the F20.

First, I tried it for about half an hour this afternoon lying in bed while listening to an audiobook. I did not use the humidifier. I guess I dozed off at some point, not long, maybe 10 minutes.

I used the humidifier at night but could not doze off at all at bedtime because the cold, wet air was so annoying. The humidifier supposedly heats up but I couldn't feel a thing. I took off the mask after about 15 minutes. But the cold air really woke me up, and I couldn't fall back asleep for hours.
Last edited by onward60 on Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

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Janknitz
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by Janknitz » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:31 pm

She went to a different medical group and liked her NP. I wonder if I could switch groups. I am so unimpressed with my current group.
It is or will be very soon open enrollment time. If you are not happy with the NP, it's time to change.
Is that 88 number the desat number? And if I don't have desats, then why go to a lab? In fact, if I'm not having desats, why use a CPAP?


You spent only 0.2% of the night below 88% Oxygen saturation level but you only slept probably 4 hours, so it would be helpful to know what happens to your O2 levels when you are in deep REM sleep. In addition, a lab may see other things going on besides OSA that the watch pat can't pick up. They can also help you with mask selection and fitting during the titration portion if it's a good lab. But I don't blame you for not wanting to do a sleep lab study--I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it either. And some labs are not that great, to make it a truly miserable experience.

You did have desats down to 83% but just not for very long. But as untreated OSA drags on in your lifetime untreated, it can get worse. Every "event" causes your body to release stress hormones to try to get you breathing again. Those hormones cause damage to your body over time. It's like a death of a 1000 papercuts. One is not a big deal. 14 per hour all night every night is a huge deal.
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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:07 pm

Janknitz wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:31 pm

You spent only 0.2% of the night below 88% Oxygen saturation level but you only slept probably 4 hours, so it would be helpful to know what happens to your O2 levels when you are in deep REM sleep. In addition, a lab may see other things going on besides OSA that the watch pat can't pick up. They can also help you with mask selection and fitting during the titration portion if it's a good lab. But I don't blame you for not wanting to do a sleep lab study--I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it either. And some labs are not that great, to make it a truly miserable experience.

You did have desats down to 83% but just not for very long. But as untreated OSA drags on in your lifetime untreated, it can get worse. Every "event" causes your body to release stress hormones to try to get you breathing again. Those hormones cause damage to your body over time. It's like a death of a 1000 papercuts. One is not a big deal. 14 per hour all night every night is a huge deal.
I see. I'm a bit confused as to why I'm not having desats if I'm having apneas. I would think they went together. I do remember my sleep nurse telling me most of my apneas were in REM. I think he said an apnea every 2 minutes in REM. I don't think I ever go into deep REM.

I'm so tired today it's very hard to have hope.
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

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Julie
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by Julie » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:36 pm

Anyone can have apneas without desatting... they're not necessarily diagnostic of each other and it's also a good reason to do a lab study as a lot of things can be gone into, put together, etc. that a home study or e.g. doctor's office can't.

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onward60
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Re: have tried so many masks

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:54 pm

Julie wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:36 pm
Anyone can have apneas without desatting... they're not necessarily diagnostic of each other and it's also a good reason to do a lab study as a lot of things can be gone into, put together, etc. that a home study or e.g. doctor's office can't.
I am actually thinking about the lab study. But I would change groups first. I've seen the sleep lab in my current group. It's cramped and dingy. And the gal I met with who explained the home study was super chatty and bouncing off the walls. Not the kind of person who would help someone relax and sleep. :roll:
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 Autoset for her machine.

My private messages might be turned off.