Phillips / Philips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread

[Dan_McD]

Just a suggestion. Don't put anything where the foam was and lower your usual settings by 2 or 3 cm and see how that works.

Removal of the foam is not a reason to lower the pressure. The machine has pressure sensors that will maintain the correct fan speed. Of course, if you damage one of the pressure sensors in taking the foam out, the machine will not work properly at any setting.

I don't understand why you would say that. The OP that actually removed the foam thought the pressure increased. This is his quote.

I removed the foam like the Australian bloke in his video. Put it back together and the machine went into choo choo train mode . Meaning i couldn’t even keep my mask on

Have you had experience with removing the foam?

[Pugsy]

If someone removes the foam and they "think" the pressure is different they need to verify with a manometer and cross their fingers they didn't mess up the pressure sensors.

Actually if I was going to go down the foam removal road I would verify pressures BEFORE and AFTER removal.
Just "thinking" something "feels" different doesn't mean much and if people want to optimally treat their OSA they shouldn't be guessing.
If someone needs 12 cm pressure to hold their airway open and they drop it to 9...and that's what the machine is delivering then they could very well end up with untreated apnea events happening.

Thinking and feeling doesn't mean much....verify with a manometer. They are easily found and even made at home.

[Dan_McD]

If someone removes the foam and they "think" the pressure is different they need to verify with a manometer and cross their fingers they didn't mess up the pressure sensors.

Actually if I was going to go down the foam removal road I would verify pressures BEFORE and AFTER removal.
Just "thinking" something "feels" different doesn't mean much and if people want to optimally treat their OSA they shouldn't be guessing.
If someone needs 12 cm pressure to hold their airway open and they drop it to 9...and that's what the machine is delivering then they could very well end up with untreated apnea events happening.

Thinking and feeling doesn't mean much....verify with a manometer. They are easily found and even made at home.

Pugsy, wouldn't this also show up in OSCAR?

[Grumpy48]

If someone removes the foam and they "think" the pressure is different they need to verify with a manometer and cross their fingers they didn't mess up the pressure sensors.

Actually if I was going to go down the foam removal road I would verify pressures BEFORE and AFTER removal.
Just "thinking" something "feels" different doesn't mean much and if people want to optimally treat their OSA they shouldn't be guessing.
If someone needs 12 cm pressure to hold their airway open and they drop it to 9...and that's what the machine is delivering then they could very well end up with untreated apnea events happening.

Thinking and feeling doesn't mean much....verify with a manometer. They are easily found and even made at home.

I know a manometer can measure pressure and had used them years ago in HVAC work, but it would seem that removal of the foam would lessen the internal surface friction of the housing which may affect air flow rate/velocity and not so much the static pressure. If there is a sensor in the CPAP that measures air flow and was calibrated as having foam in the housing it's conceivable something could alter what the air flow controls. The change of flow rate would likely be negligible in the whole scheme of things, but something to consider. An anemometer would be used to measure air flow.

I think if I were to try to see a before and after difference I might consider trying to use OSCAR as a tool. Not sure if leaving the hose open ended and running the CPAP for a few minutes with foam and without might show something that would indicate a difference in air flow(?)
As I was typing this another post with the same thought...............

[DMZABO]

I am going to remove my foam today, only thing I wonder about is was this foam intended to reduce noise or does it act as a filter also? I know I have a fliter that I change, but does this foam filter as well? will I be reducing the flitering of the air by removing it?
My insurance provider BC/BS told me there's nothing I can do, floow DME instructions to go register the unit and wait. I find that unacceptable, and as I cannot afford to buy a resmed, I have no choice but to discontinue therapy, use the dreamstation, or buy my own. Only solution is to remove the foam.

I have removed my foam and noticing no extra noises! The air does travel through the foam from the filter opening so the air is passing through the chemically latent foam. It’s gotta go in my opinion. Good luck and it’s really not that bad of a job to preform.

[Dan_McD]

I am going to remove my foam today, only thing I wonder about is was this foam intended to reduce noise or does it act as a filter also? I know I have a fliter that I change, but does this foam filter as well? will I be reducing the flitering of the air by removing it?
My insurance provider BC/BS told me there's nothing I can do, floow DME instructions to go register the unit and wait. I find that unacceptable, and as I cannot afford to buy a resmed, I have no choice but to discontinue therapy, use the dreamstation, or buy my own. Only solution is to remove the foam.

I have removed my foam and noticing no extra noises! The air does travel through the foam from the filter opening so the air is passing through the chemically latent foam. It’s gotta go in my opinion. Good luck and it’s really not that bad of a job to preform.

I glad it worked out for you.

[palerider]

Just a suggestion. Don't put anything where the foam was and lower your usual settings by 2 or 3 cm and see how that works.

Removal of the foam is not a reason to lower the pressure. The machine has pressure sensors that will maintain the correct fan speed. Of course, if you damage one of the pressure sensors in taking the foam out, the machine will not work properly at any setting.

I don't understand why you would say that.

because the foam has nothing at all to do with the pressure..

If he didn't seal up the holes properly, then the machine would not work properly. If he didn't get the board with sensors back on properly, then the machine would not work properly.

The foam has nothing at all to do with the pressure.

[palerider]

Pugsy, wouldn't this also show up in OSCAR?

No, because the machine only reports what it's sensors tell it, and if the sensors aren't telling it the right thing, then it won't report the right thing.

[palerider]

I know a manometer can measure pressure and had used them years ago in HVAC work, but it would seem that removal of the foam would lessen the internal surface friction of the housing which may affect air flow rate/velocity and not so much the static pressure. If there is a sensor in the CPAP that measures air flow and was calibrated as having foam in the housing it's conceivable something could alter what the air flow controls. The change of flow rate would likely be negligible in the whole scheme of things, but something to consider.

The flowmeter measures the airflow, a pressure sensor measures the pressure at the outlet.

The flow is going to be measured no matter whether there's foam or no foam, as long as nobody messes up the flowmeter.

[DMZABO]

Please let me clarify what happened. When my friend and I first took the machine apart apparently we put this sm White tube in upside down. And the reason for the choo choo train as I called it was do to this error. It sent the blower air or maybe screwed up a sensor on the machine. We originally thought the foam removal was the reason for the max air? But as we found out when we rewatched the video the small white tube was incorrectly placed. I removed the gauze and the Machine is running as it did prior to me opening it. It went back to 17/15 bipap. I’m so sorry that I didn’t state this and I truly apologize for any inconvenience my original mistake has caused. I hope this helps anyone and all here on this thread.

My machine is the model DSX700T11C auto bi/pap (respironics dreamstation)

Again I’m sorry I did not know any of this before I posted my first post ! That’s why I was looking for some sort of help because like all of us with our new found problems thanks to Phillips I am desperate.

[DaveS_]

I really don't care about any noise, and from what I'm reading removal of the foam doesn't increase the noise, I just want to make sure that removing the foam doesn't change any filtration. I'm at work now talking with a coworker who also has a dream station, we have the same health insurance, and his DME is different than mine but they are just canceling his contract and the health insurance is allowing him to get a new machine from a new provider. But the same health insurance is telling me no, what gives? I need to call them back on Monday and raise a stink, maybe threaten phone calls to the state attorney general's office or something like that.

[Pugsy]

Pugsy, wouldn't this also show up in OSCAR?

No.
What PR said X2.

OSCAR only shows what the machine records but sometimes it thinks it is doing so and so but it isn't.
We have seen reports of machines thinking they were delivering 10 cm and that's what gets reported but it actually is delivering 20 cm....or 5 cm.

When it comes to my health I don't guess...I want scientific verification.
If you were diabetic would you rely on a glucometer that had been opened up and messed with and might not be accurate now?
Wouldn't you want to verify that it was still accurate???

What's so hard about using a manometer???? This is people's airways we are talking about here....oxygen levels perhaps being compromised.
To tell someone to just reduce their pressure because something "feels" like it is too much.....bad advice IMHO and potentially dangerous.

ESPECIALLY when it is so easy to verify that messing with the guts of the machine didn't mess up anything.

USE a frigging manometer instead of guessing.
It's not like the damn thing costs 500 bucks to make or buy...they are cheap.
You guys are so frigging worried about the foam and not worried about screwing up the machine sensors ( or just using to low of a pressure because it doesn't "feel" right) and maybe getting sub optimal therapy.....doesn't make much sense to me.

[Grumpy48]

Five years is the normal replacement time frame for a CPAP device at which Medicare and most insurers have determined to be the normal lifespan. Something I've thought about even prior to the recall is what happens if the CPAP device should fail beyond the normal manufacturers warranty period and is deemed not repairable or cost of repair exceeds the value of a new replacement. Providing the failure is not due to owner/user misuse or accident, will Medicare and/or other insurers cover the cost of a replacement of a failed CPAP? I presume verification of a failure would be in the hands of a DME(?)
Maybe they don't cover a failed CPAP and the owner/user foots the bill?

Of course the reason I ask is the recall. The foam laden CPAP's have been deemed not usable by Philips. They have 'failed' and at present there appears to be no option to repair for the failed units on the horizon. Would this failure be no different than if a CPAP device had burned up and was not repairable?

[DMZABO]

Also I’d like to mention that when I made the original mistake I tried doing crap I should’ve never done without taking a picture or at least writing these numbers down! But I was so frustrated b3cause my machine is my life . Just like all of yours right? And I just thought I could try to move numbers down. Foolish move on my part man I know. But as of now I got my in/out #’s right but I’m not sure how to get back to the min/max pressure support? On the crappy dreamstation app it says my numbers before the foam attempt was at 2.0 minimum & 8.0 maximum. Haven’t a clue what that all does ? But I’m going to call the CPAP doctor on Monday and ask them if I can bring it to them to reset it if possible. But I didn’t want to breathe in those chemicals any longer. 2 1/2 years is far to much . We have enough problems as it is now let alone breathing in this company’s mistakes nightly! I made mistakes no doubt. But I thought I can get some help here with fellow hoseheads that actually know what their doing.
Had I not put that stupid sm White plug in upside down I’m thinking all would be just fine with my machine. That was a big mistake on my part because that opened the door for me turning things I should’ve never done. But I was frustrated and Stupid too. But taking it apart wasn’t my choice per say...it was Phillips choice for polluting our bodies in the first place. And they are making us wait for GOD only knows how long? Thanks for listening . It’s just bad luck on my part or just stupid. But it’s not like we could’ve walked into a store and had the foam removed or replaced YET.

[DMZABO]

Oh yeah and Phillips didn’t have the courtesy to email me about this BIG MATTER even though they had my email because I signed up for the dreamstation app. I found out about this like 5 days ago. Wtf this has been common knowledge since June 15? Phillips doesn’t care about us. I paid my machine off and this is what I get in return. My doctors office is saying nothing but to wait till Phillips makes contact with me? Lots of help that is? And Phillips is saying STOP USING THE ,MACHINES unless you are on oxygen that is? Think about what those poor people are worrying about now. The anxiety this has caused so many people is sickening! You and I know Phillips knew about this problem long ago. And they could care less.
Thanks for allowing me to rant again... please try to have a nice weekend .