Regarding kteague's post about sleeping 8+ hours

I just read kteague's post about sleeping 8+ hours. Is not sleeping through the night typical with sleep apnea? I guess it's different for everyone but I thought that most people with sleep apnea slept through the night but the arousals were slight and not enough to fully awaken.

I, however, awaken once (that I am aware of) per night, at which time I take 2 valerian capsules and 1 meletonin capsule. That gets me through until morning. In the morning I should be refreshed but I haven't been refreshed in the morning EVER. I am able to function pretty well though.

I go to sleep almost immediately when my head hits the pillow. I need 10 or more hours of "sleep". I don't think that is normal, but I just always thought I was different from most people.

HMMM, just thinking out loud here and wondering if I am trying the make up with quantity sleep what I am lacking in quality.

I usually wake up 3 to 5 times a night. If only twice I consider it a really good night. I usually get back to sleep easy enough, but I wish I could sleep the whole night thru.

I'm not a Doc, but I would watch the pills in the night. I've been told not to take melatonin after about 1:30 in the morning.

I do know that if you take oral Melatonin you should not take it during the day. I did not know about not taking it after 1:30 AM.
Thx Viki

Viki

What you are describing - falling asleep the minute your head hits the pillow, not waking until around 4-5 am or so, but feeling super tired and sleepy during the day describes me BEFORE treatment.

Are you describing your sleep when you are using your mask?

If yes, your profile says that you are using an RemStar Auto, so you should be collecting your numbers. Do you have the software to read your numbers, or have you taken the card into your DME to print them out for you?

That would give you lots of information about how many apneas/hopopneas and mask leaks your might be having. With that information you can make a better assessment of why you might still be so sleepy.

Betty303

Whenever I take 1 melatonin capsule and three valerian root capsules it puts me out until morning. I generally did this before I started CPAP, I had a double whammy with Apnea and Insomnia... Now I generally take 1 melatonin capsule before bed, and it helps me to fall asleep within 15-20 minutes. If I don't take it, it can be 3+ hours before I nod off. Usually when I take it later, aorund 2 or 3 am, I am less likely to get up in the morning and feel extra tired when I do. (Though I am still always tired.)

On a normal unmedicated day's worth of sleep, if I go to sleep when I'm tired and wake up naturally I generally sleep for 9-10 hours (even w/ cpap) though if you see my post, I'm not sure that the CPAP is even working for me.

With my apnea, I can go to sleep easily enough but wake up throughout the night with either breathing problems or PLMD and therefore get no rest.
With CPAP the one thing I have noticed so far is far less arousals and almost no limb movement! Yippee

I think HOW you are taking the melatonin supplement may be why you are sleeping 10 hours. But hey if you are happy with sleeping 10hrs then continue to do so.

But our normal peak melatonin levels are about 2AM and decline from there until morning where they are at their lowest. It is not until the following evening do they start to climb again.

If you are waiting until you wake up during the night to take a melatonin you are then only extending your normal peak melatonin level which is probably what is extending the time you sleep. You wake up when those melatonin levels drop back down.

As you know as we get older our melatonin levels drop with age, this is why many elderly have insomnia. It would be interesting to see how you do if you took the melatonin before falling asleep like 1/2 hour before your normal bedtime and how that impacts what time you wake up or get up in the morning.

When you go on light therapy, that is what it does supposedly shifts that natural peak melatonin level.

I just tried the new Schiff brand 3mg MelatoninPlus from Costco, I have used that brand in the non-Plus version for a couple years and it has worked just fine in the past, but I was getting low and seen they had it on sale for like $3.50 with instant rebate. So I bought a couple bottles, hey that price is cheap.

But Schiff calls this new version MelatoninPlus they added a 3rd ingredient to the already 3mg melatonin and 10mg B6, it is 25mg. of L-Theanine (good stuff found in green tea).

Totally disappointed with the MelatoninPlus, it was like I took nothing at all, when I finally did get to sleep I couldn't stay asleep. So I kept using it for about a week thinking it was probably just a fluke. Then I had to order some other supplements and I usually buy those from WonderLabs.com, at the same time I seen they had 3mg melatonin, so I ordered 2ea x 250 count bottles for like $4.58 ea.

I took one of those WonderLabs melatonin the first night it arrived and it worked like a charm, I didn't wake up until it was time to get up. I see why Costco had that MelatoninPlus on sale for $3.48 for a 300 tabs, that stuff doesn't work. Maybe they didn't use the caffiene free green tea, cause that stuff was like taking beans.

The WonderLabs.com version works great, hopefully they won't screw it up like Schiff did by adding other ingredients to it.

Valerin Root: Wonderlabs also sent me a sample of their Valerin Root in this order, think I might try it for my sciatica. I usually hang upside down in a LifeGear inversion table for that and it goes away after a few days.

For medications, I only take a 325mg Ecotrin for stroke prevention, a 3mg melatonin nightly and a daily multi-vitamin. Sometimes I'll take a booster of vitamin B-complex (for anxiety), Vitamin C & D and maybe a mega-mineral. I once stopped taking the daily aspirin for 3-4 days recently, man I guess I have developed arthritus or something, all my joints hurt, in my knees, my hands and fingers all started hurting, woke up all stiff. Went back on the 325mg Ecotrin and those pains went away.

Why 10 hours of sleep ? Must be other issues there, like lack of excercise, depression, etc. Meds are good temporary, but can't be doing your body good for a long usage. I usually sleep well the first four hours, after that I go into a restless sleep for the next 3 hours, then I look forward to getting out of bed, being slept out. Wish I could get seven straight hours, but since cpap, it hasn't happened. wishing you a restful sleep.
Ed

Thanks for the replies. As you can see I'm still stying to figure it out. Aren't we all.
I am still trying to get the Encore Pro up and running. I'm getting pretty disgusted with it though. I'm going back to my laptop. I'm on a network so I don't know if that is a problem.

I do need to read my numbers.

As far as the Melatonin goes, it gets me through the night as is better than not sleeping although I think it is just a band-aid for the real problem.

I've always wondered why I am so much tireder than other people.
Now I know thanks to you guys.

Hurricane, are you in Florida. I'm in a hurricane zone too. Can't really sleep through those.

There's NO problem with taking the melatonin in the middle of the night, if you awaken, in my opinion. Oral melatonin has a VERY short serum-elimination half-life and so, its out of your system shortly after you take it. That's why its good for inducing sleep, but not for maintaiining it. It "synchronizes" your biological clock (circadian rthym) to "darkness" and helps your body prepare to sleep when that darkness "signal" hits. For that reason, it ought not to be taken consistently during normal periods of wakefulness, such as day-time for us non-shift workers.

You ought to be cautious about the dose that you take. Though melatonin is VERY neuro-protective and won't hurt you, recent studies have demonstrated that men require no more than 150 MICROgrams to create that "darkness signal" while women require 100 MICROgrams. Many of the over-the-counter preparations contain 3 MILLIgrams of melatonin, or about THIRTY times the dose women require. The effect of taking that big a dose over time may be a de-sensitization of the body's MT1 and MT2 melatonin receptors, so that it will STOP producing that "darkness signal" sleep promoting effect. Again, it won't hurt you to take a bigger dose, but it may prevent it from helping with sleep, in my opinion.

You can obtain lower doses over the internet. I get (and take) 200 MICROgram tablets every evening just when I get into bed, and I sleep like a baby for 8+ hours every night. I order mine from http://www.puritanvitamins.com and its dirt cheap from them. Wal-mart used to carry 300 mcg. tablets under the Rexall brand, but I haven't seen it for sale at Wal-MArt for awhile.

BTW, because of its very short half-life, I believe that its important to take it shortly before you wish to go to SLEEP. Not when you are getting ready for bed, or when you get into bed intending to read, watch TV or wrestle. It'll be gone and out of your system before you are actually ready to sleep, in those cases. But for this same reason, I believe that it's fine to take it if you awaken in the night, to help you get back to sleep.

Hope this helps!

chuck

Hi Vicky,
Would like to be in Florida weather, I'm up here in Jersey. There must be someone on this forum to help you with your Encore Pro, repost your problem again, there must be a knowledgable member on board that could help you, Send some sunshine north.
Ed

Vicki, have you tried the pur-sleep essential oils? I've been using them for over a week now and find that instead of my usual 6 hours of sleep, I'm sleeping a full 8 hours with no interuptions. The only change I've made during this time is the pur-sleep. I use one drop of the mint and one of the lavender. It might be worth a try.

Brenda

You sold me on the essential oils. I'm getting some today. Thanks for all the suggestions. I will continue to work on Encore Pro. I'm going to send all you northerners sunshine from Florida while we have it. Then you can send me safety during the hurricaine season which is soon coming up.
Thanks guys,
Viki

vdol52 wrote:Thanks for the replies. As you can see I'm still stying to figure it out. Aren't we all.
I am still trying to get the Encore Pro up and running. I'm getting pretty disgusted with it though. I'm going back to my laptop. I'm on a network so I don't know if that is a problem.

I do need to read my numbers.

Viki,

I'm thinking that network installation is a big part of your installation problem. In the install, I believe there IS an option for network installation, but if you have standalone usage of your computer, you would select the "single computer" option.

Good luck.

Den

Vickie,
hope I am not repeating what's already been suggested. I have been on CPAP for 5-6 years with various results, but the botton line was that I was getting more tired not less no matter how much I slept. I think you need to make sure your apnea is being controlled and that your mask isn't leaking. Even though my first study showed an underlying problem with alpha wave intrusion, no one addressed this. As a result I have been sleep deprived (no stage 4 sleep) for many years. You might have a pie chart on your study report indicating the time spent in each sleep level. Check it out. I'm not a fan of natural remedies, but that's just my issue. Good luck.