palerider wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:29 pmYou shouldn't be touching those settings yourself until you've educated yourself with what the adjustments NEED to be, or someone here with experience advises changes after reviewing the data.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:03 pmThank you for that! I guess I shouldn't be touching these settings myself?
Diddling with the settings without knowledge typically ends up with less optimal results.
| Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
| Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Thank you! You do have a point. The muscles are relaxing with exhalation so there are no muscles to weaken. Curious, how do you know that your exhalation setting is higher than mine? I actually didn't even know what mine was until someone just told me how to check. But that could be the issue. It's possible that my exhalation setting is too high.ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:26 pmLook, I'm a tiny female that is more than twice your age. My exhale pressure setting is higher than yours. When I fall asleep, my autonomous nervous system controls breathing. I breathe gently and easily all night. You must be imagining something based on feelings while awake and thinking about your breathing and the CPAP.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:15 pmWhile you are sleeping because you are unconscious your force of exhalation is at the mercy of your CPAP pressure.
During breathing, the diaphragm (a muscle) contracts to draw air into the lungs. For exhalation, the diaphragm relaxes and the lungs' elastic recoil causes air to be expelled from the lungs. There are no muscles exercised during exhalation while asleep. (While awake, muscles may be consciously flexed to drive additional air from the lungs.)
So, if you are getting any muscle contraction on exhale, it's while you are awake and conscious of your breathing. Probably a little bit anxious about it.
No medical professional is allowed to touch my machine or determine my settings.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:03 pmI guess I shouldn't be touching these settings myself?
| Machine: AirSense 10 AutoSet with Heated Humidifer + P10 Nasal Pillow Mask Bundle |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Awesome. Thank you! I will post it once I have the results.zonker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:35 pmwe actually encourage people to adjust their own settings. each of us have different "events" that make up our "ahi", which is a way to measure your specific sleep apnea. so, what works for ME won't necessarily work for THEE. although there ARE, broadly speaking, things that will work for almost anybody.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:52 pmOh ok. I haven't used Oscar yet. So would you say changing the settings will mostly be based on Oscar vs. what your personal experience is or maybe a combo of the two? I will try out Oscar and get back to you if I have any questions about it. Thank you Julie!
don't worry about understanding oscar. what you'll need to do is figure it out enough so that you can post a chart here, right HERE in this thread. then the experts can make suggestions based on what they see in that chart in order to help you improve.
good luck!
| Machine: AirSense 10 AutoSet with Heated Humidifer + P10 Nasal Pillow Mask Bundle |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
This was great info. Thank you! Especially this part: "Normal" air pressure is 14 psi, which translates to 984+ cmH20. CPAP's go up to 20 cm H2O, I think the maximum pressure on a BIPAP is 25 cm H2O So there is NO danger that you couldn't passively exhale with CPAP even if you are not using exhalation pressure relief. A science based answer. And yes you called it. Definitely have some OCD! I will definitely stick with the CPAP.Janknitz wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:28 pmI assume if you are a dentist, you took anatomy and physiology before or during dental school. Don't you remember this:
For the most part, exhalation during sleep is PASSIVE. "The process of normal expiration is passive, meaning that energy is not required to push air out of the lungs. Instead, the elasticity of the lung tissue causes the lung to recoil, as the diaphragm and intercostal muscles relax following inspiration. In turn, the thoracic cavity and lungs decrease in volume, causing an increase in interpulmonary pressure. The interpulmonary pressure rises above atmospheric pressure, creating a pressure gradient that causes air to leave the lungs." (https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny- ... o-content/)
"Normal" air pressure is 14 psi, which translates to 984+ cmH20. CPAP's go up to 20 cm H2O, I think the maximum pressure on a BIPAP is 25 cm H2O So there is NO danger that you couldn't passively exhale with CPAP even if you are not using exhalation pressure relief.
We can use muscles for forceful exhalation like the intercostals and abdominal muscles. But we don't have to forcefully exhale to expel sufficient air from our lungs. It will happen anyway, when the diaphragm relaxes. It's hard to hold your breath--think about how much work it takes NOT to exhale.
BTW, all of us have some residual volume in our lungs during normal breathing. Otherwise our lungs would collapse. It is not necessary to forcefully expel every last bit of air (and you really can't) from the lungs.
So if you feel that the only way to exhale "fully" is to consciously contract your diaphragm ( remember that exhalation is actually RELAXATION of the diaphragm) perhaps something else is going on with your the elasticity of lungs or the relaxation of your diaphragm, and you need to see a pulmonologist. Or perhaps you are a little OCD (I think that's a good trait in a dentist, to a point) and obsess about things like whether you are breathing right, when you don't have any symptoms of the life threatening illnesses that affect your ability to exhale???
In the meantime you might want to stick with your CPAP, because it makes the difference between enough air going in and NO air going into your lungs several times an hour while you sleep. THAT's what you should really be paying attention to.
| Machine: AirSense 10 AutoSet with Heated Humidifer + P10 Nasal Pillow Mask Bundle |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
do that. and then gather up a few more night's worth of data and post that as well.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:58 pm
Awesome. Thank you! I will post it once I have the results.
| Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
I joined this forum thinking this was a safe place for people suffering from sleep apnea. A place to have healthy and mature discussion. I've gotten a lot of great and helpful responses! But seriously, I just want to make sure you are ok. I sense a lot of hostility in your responses. This link may be helpful for you: www.psychologytoday.com. There are a lot of great therapists on there you can vent to regarding what makes you so angry. Please spare me and this forum. Happy Holidays.palerider wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:25 pmIt's complete and utter bollocks.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:15 pmYes that is true about muscles. I am not sure if my theory has merit which is why I posted.Dog Slobber wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:15 amRule of thumb with most muscles is by giving them a little extra work, they get stronger, not weaker.
If your theory had any merit, then millions of CPAP users would have compromised exhalation muscles. We don't.
Your RIGHT! The headlines are covered with reports of people who can't breathe after using cpap, aren't they? I'm sure 60 Minutes did an exposé about it just last week!lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:15 pmHow do you know that millions of CPAP users don't have compromised muscles of exhalation?
Lots of things that are built on ignorance 'make sense' to the person that dreamed it up.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:15 pmAgain I could be wrong but this is my theory and it makes sense to me.
Again, completely and utterly WRONG. A CPAP can't even inflate a balloon it's so weak.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:15 pmIf your CPAP air is pushing against your exhalation air while you are unconscious/sleeping and if the force of your CPAP is a greater force than your normal force of exhalation than the CPAP will win that battle.You're so full of it. I hope, for your patients sake, that you do better tooth work than you do respiratory theory.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:15 pmIt takes conscious action to work out muscles. While you are sleeping because you are unconscious your force of exhalation is at the mercy of your CPAP pressure.
| Machine: AirSense 10 AutoSet with Heated Humidifer + P10 Nasal Pillow Mask Bundle |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
It's a "safe place" (if you will) for people looking for help. It is not a "safe place" for crackpot 'theories' theories that may mislead newbies into thinking stupid things that may end up harming them or derailing the success of their therapy. Your "theory" (prefaced with your disbelief that your CPAP is really necessary) will encourage others to try and avoid life saving therapy.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:20 pmI joined this forum thinking this was a safe place for people suffering from sleep apnea.
Part of "mature discussion" is being able to handle it when people tell you that you're full of shit. You need to put on your big boy panties if you want to have a "mature discussion" here. If you simply want people to hold your hand and sympathize when you' babble crap, you're in the wrong place.
yay
I'm fine, but neither I nor anybody else here really wants to spend their holidays debunking ignorant crap like you're proposing.
HAH! Yes, I am hostile to stupidity. It remains to be seen whether you're stupid, or merely ignorant. We here can FIX ignorance, if you're willing to learn
Oh, now you're a shrink?lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:20 pmThis link may be helpful for you: www.psychologytoday.com. There are a lot of great therapists on there you can vent to regarding what makes you so angry. Please spare me and this forum. Happy Holidays.
I just hadn't noticed much else that really looked like it needed attentionzonker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:07 pmletmelookatyou.jpgpalerider wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:29 pmYou shouldn't be touching those settings yourself until you've educated yourself with what the adjustments NEED to be, or someone here with experience advises changes after reviewing the data.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:03 pmThank you for that! I guess I shouldn't be touching these settings myself?
Diddling with the settings without knowledge typically ends up with less optimal results.
| Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Slightly mis-leading,lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:05 pmThis was great info. Thank you! , I think the maximum pressure on a BIPAP is 25 cm H2O So there is NO danger that you couldn't passively exhale with CPAP even if you are not using exhalation pressure relief. A science based answer. And yes you called it. Definitely have some OCD! I will definitely stick with the CPAP.Janknitz wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:28 pmI assume if you are a dentist, you took anatomy and physiology before or during dental school. Don't you remember this:
For the most part, exhalation during sleep is PASSIVE. "The process of normal expiration is passive, meaning that energy is not required to push air out of the lungs. Instead, the elasticity of the lung tissue causes the lung to recoil, as the diaphragm and intercostal muscles relax following inspiration. In turn, the thoracic cavity and lungs decrease in volume, causing an increase in interpulmonary pressure. The interpulmonary pressure rises above atmospheric pressure, creating a pressure gradient that causes air to leave the lungs." (https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny- ... o-content/)
"Normal" air pressure is 14 psi, which translates to 984+ cmH20. CPAP's go up to 20 cm H2O, I think the maximum pressure on a BIPAP is 25 cm H2O So there is NO danger that you couldn't passively exhale with CPAP even if you are not using exhalation pressure relief.
We can use muscles for forceful exhalation like the intercostals and abdominal muscles. But we don't have to forcefully exhale to expel sufficient air from our lungs. It will happen anyway, when the diaphragm relaxes. It's hard to hold your breath--think about how much work it takes NOT to exhale.
BTW, all of us have some residual volume in our lungs during normal breathing. Otherwise our lungs would collapse. It is not necessary to forcefully expel every last bit of air (and you really can't) from the lungs.
So if you feel that the only way to exhale "fully" is to consciously contract your diaphragm ( remember that exhalation is actually RELAXATION of the diaphragm) perhaps something else is going on with your the elasticity of lungs or the relaxation of your diaphragm, and you need to see a pulmonologist. Or perhaps you are a little OCD (I think that's a good trait in a dentist, to a point) and obsess about things like whether you are breathing right, when you don't have any symptoms of the life threatening illnesses that affect your ability to exhale???
In the meantime you might want to stick with your CPAP, because it makes the difference between enough air going in and NO air going into your lungs several times an hour while you sleep. THAT's what you should really be paying attention to.
Ooops! Forgot about that.In reality, it's 14 psi (Normal air pressure) PLUS up to 20 to 30 cm H2O added by the setting of the XPAP! Jim
| Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Well. You’re right I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to sleep apnea and the CPAP. Which is why I joined the forum! Silly guy.palerider wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:56 pmIt's a "safe place" (if you will) for people looking for help. It is not a "safe place" for crackpot 'theories' theories that may mislead newbies into thinking stupid things that may end up harming them or derailing the success of their therapy. Your "theory" (prefaced with your disbelief that your CPAP is really necessary) will encourage others to try and avoid life saving therapy.lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:20 pmI joined this forum thinking this was a safe place for people suffering from sleep apnea.
Part of "mature discussion" is being able to handle it when people tell you that you're full of shit. You need to put on your big boy panties if you want to have a "mature discussion" here. If you simply want people to hold your hand and sympathize when you' babble crap, you're in the wrong place.yayI'm fine, but neither I nor anybody else here really wants to spend their holidays debunking ignorant crap like you're proposing.HAH! Yes, I am hostile to stupidity. It remains to be seen whether you're stupid, or merely ignorant. We here can FIX ignorance, if you're willing to learnOh, now you're a shrink?lovehatemyCPAP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:20 pmThis link may be helpful for you: www.psychologytoday.com. There are a lot of great therapists on there you can vent to regarding what makes you so angry. Please spare me and this forum. Happy Holidays.
Spare us all.
| Machine: AirSense 10 AutoSet with Heated Humidifer + P10 Nasal Pillow Mask Bundle |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Thank you Julie. You're one of the good ones. I'll post my Oscar results here soon.
| Machine: AirSense 10 AutoSet with Heated Humidifer + P10 Nasal Pillow Mask Bundle |
| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
