...at the end of my hose

Guys,

Three weeks now and I'm on the brink of failure here having serious mask issues. Even with the face mask, Mirage Ultra, my jaw drops, my cheeks fill like bellows with air, and the seal fails. I've even shaved my beard and have tried so many adjustments and nothing has worked. My last attempt is a CPAP.COM Deluxe Chinstrap. It looks like an ace bandage on steroids. I ordered it today from CPAP.COM with overnight shipping. If this thing doesn't work I don't know what I will do. I am sure I will be just "a vision of loveliness" wearing that strap and my Activa.

Randall

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, activa, cpap.com, seal

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, activa, cpap.com, seal

Vision of loveliness aside , I think the chin strap is a good idea. Alternately, you could use an actual ace bandage as someone else has said in previous threads. Or, if that doesn't work, you can try different face masks. If I remember my (shudder!) experience with the F&P HC 431 correctly, it fit further down around my jaw - so perhaps something like that would work better for you. I found it to be a very uncomfortable mask, but others here have had success with it.

Good luck, and don't give up!

SleeplessInLasVegas wrote:Guys,

Three weeks now and I'm on the brink of failure here having serious mask issues. Even with the face mask, Mirage Ultra, my jaw drops, my cheeks fill like bellows with air, and the seal fails. I've even shaved my beard and have tried so many adjustments and nothing has worked. My last attempt is a CPAP.COM Deluxe Chinstrap. It looks like an ace bandage on steroids. I ordered it today from CPAP.COM with overnight shipping. If this thing doesn't work I don't know what I will do. I am sure I will be just "a vision of loveliness" wearing that strap and my Activa.

Randall

It all depends on where your blockage is that contributes to your OSA, but:

Chins straps don't usually work because they "can" pull your mandible back which narrows your airway at the back of the throat. Chin straps that hook over the chin in front are usually worse offenders at this.

When you think about it, chin straps perform the opposite action that a dental device would for treatment of OSA. When you use a dental device, it drops your mandible and also brings it forward and holds it there. By moving the mandible forward it also pulls the tongue forward which is actually attached on the back side of your chin bone. So moving the mandible forward widens the airway at the back of the throat, you are forcing the opposite action using a chin strap (reason they don't work). Make a sling shot out of the one you have, they are worthless.

This is why taping your mouth can work for some. If you can secure the lips it can sometimes prevent the jaw from dropping and losing the seal at the mouth. When you start to mouth breathe, the first thing that happens is the lips part by about 1/8", the jaw relaxes, tongue disengages from the palate, the mandible drops and seal is broken and cpap air is free to escape.

Cheeks are puffing? If your cheeks are puffing, your tongue is probably not planted into the hard palate and the chin strap is pulling your mandible back occluding the airway. The air has to go somewhere so it forces its way out the mouth, chinstrap or no chinstrap. Problem is most likely a too tall pillow that is cocking your head up with chin in your chest. Try a different pillow that puts your head in more a CPR like position. There is a reason they tilt your head back for CPR, it naturally opens the airway.

What is your pressure? If your pressure is very high, leaks can be almost unavoidable. Leaks mainly cause a problem if you are using a autopap as that machine requires feedback from you to function and it has to overcome the added noise created by the machine itself to listen for events. Leaks are not so much a problem with a cpap machine as it only has to maintain the dialed in pressure. When you have a leak with it, it will rev up to compensate up to the maximum flow the machine can deliver.

The UMFF is not a bad mask, you have to be careful on over tightening the straps as doing so you can crush the cushion where it will leave a crease, then where it is crushed, it will leak at that crease much more than if you just wore it loosely. The UMFF cushion is made to seal with pressure. It is important to adjust the forehead piece so it prevents any leaks into the eyes.

Key to stop mouth breathing is to practice keeping your tongue planted into the hard palate.

Most people with OSA, it is simply their tongue falling into the back of the throat. This is WHY their OSA gets worse when they sleep in the supine position, gravity pulls the tongue into the back of the throat as soon as they relax. This is also why the UPPP fails so miserably, this procedure only makes a bigger hole for the tongue to land in. If you sleep on your side, gravity has a more difficult time and you can usually lessen the severity of the disorder. This is seen on nearly every PSG.

Snoredog,
Tried the chin straps didn't work for me, no matter how tight you can make it you can still open your lips if that is what your lips are trying to do. I tried the Ultra Full face mask,the profile lite, the comfort gel, had either leaks,or soreness from tightening straps, and higher numbers in AHI due to I'm sure mask leakage, I still occasionally try going back to each one feeling I'm missing some adjustment, but as of now with the Swift I mantain AHI of 1.5- 0.4 so I presume thats what I should be concerned with, and the least discomfort with its pillow system, as mentioned by others you can train your tongue to restrict air flow, it took me awhile but I learned how to do it, I can even talk to my wife shortly without air rushing out of my mouth, but have to tell her I can't discuss the rising price of gasoline.
Hope you can find your right fit, in this cpap journey.
Ed

Hurricane wrote:Snoredog,
Tried the chin straps didn't work for me, no matter how tight you can make it you can still open your lips if that is what your lips are trying to do. I tried the Ultra Full face mask,the profile lite, the comfort gel, had either leaks,or soreness from tightening straps, and higher numbers in AHI due to I'm sure mask leakage, I still occasionally try going back to each one feeling I'm missing some adjustment, but as of now with the Swift I mantain AHI of 1.5- 0.4 so I presume thats what I should be concerned with, and the least discomfort with its pillow system, as mentioned by others you can train your tongue to restrict air flow, it took me awhile but I learned how to do it, I can even talk to my wife shortly without air rushing out of my mouth, but have to tell her I can't discuss the rising price of gasoline.
Hope you can find your right fit, in this cpap journey.
Ed

Isn't that what I said? chin straps generally don't work and I gave examples why they don't.

In order for a chin strap to work, I would think you would need a special dental device that moves the mandible forward and holds it there against the chin strap pressure (so the chin strap doesn't pull the mandible back).

For example: the DIY athletic mouth guards would work if you could glue 2 of them together. You would have to boil and make one for the upper maxillary and another for mandible, once formed to your teeth they would be glued together with the mandible set or moved forward slightly. Your dentist could assist in doing this correctly where it doesn't cause any TMJ problems.

Then you could use the chin strap to keep the jaw from dropping, the DIY device would keep the mandible from being pulled back occluding the airway at the back of the throat. I presume the dental device would also help keep the tongue planted in the palate which helps maintain the seal.

Snoredog,
Message was sent by my mistake to you, should have been to

SLEEPLESS IN LASVEGAS

Randall (can I just tell you how fortunate you are to have that name? It goes way back in my family)

I saw this idea on a thread yesterday and have been thinking about trying it out myself. It's a way to make your own mouthpiece using athletic "boil and bite" mouthpieces. It seems to work extremely well in helping people keep their oral air passage pleasantly closed all night--no chin straps, no ace bandages, no FF masks. And it's an inexpensive do-it-yourself project. I was planning on making one myself this weekend.

Here's the thread:

viewtopic/t18034/Like-you-havent-heard- ... hingy.html

You might want to give it a try--sounds like it might help.

Hang in there--you'll get it figured out. Just keep trying.