Sore Throat and Humidifer--Dreamstation

Sleep2Dream · Post by **Sleep2Dream** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:13 pm

I have tried searching, but I get too many irrelevant hits, so I thought I'd just post a question.

I use the Dreamwear Nasal Cushion. I recently tried the new DreamWisp, but I hated it. I'm now back to the nasal cushion but with the new rigid-arm headgear, which I like a lot. My Dreamstation is telling me I'm mostly doing fine in terms of mask leakage--meaning none. But I have woken up the past few mornings with a sore throat. The humidifier is still full of water, or mostly full. The actual air has been extremely humid lately. Is there a way I can tell the Dreamstation humidifier to humidify my air even though the relative humidity in the room is already high? I seem to be very sensitive to air blowing at the back of my throat. My AHI has been fine. I'm feeling really frustrated. Any advice would be welcome.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:44 pm

So what setting are you using on the humidifier?
Heated hose or non heated hose.

Sore throat...any chance your mouth is also a bit dry?

Have you looked at your software reports to see if you are still snoring very much?

Sleep2Dream · Post by **Sleep2Dream** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:22 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:44 pm
So what setting are you using on the humidifier?
Heated hose or non heated hose.

Sore throat...any chance your mouth is also a bit dry?

Have you looked at your software reports to see if you are still snoring very much?

I upped the humidifier to 5 last night (its highest setting). Heated hose, with heat set on 4. Last night was better, throat-wise, but the relative humidity in the room wasn't as bad, either.

The only part of my mouth that gets dry with the cpap is the back of the soft palate, right where the air blows. I don't let my cpap pressure go higher than 11.5, because every time it went up to 12, my soft palate got dried out and sticky and uncomfortable.

According to my Oscar data, I had 2 vibratory snores on Sunday night and no snores at all on Monday night, the nights in question.

Thanks for your help!

raisedfist · Post by **raisedfist** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:45 am

Have you tried taping your mouth for a night? Eliminating mouth breathing as a variable may shed more light on the sore throat feeling.

Sleep2Dream · Post by **Sleep2Dream** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:56 am

raisedfist wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:45 am
Have you tried taping your mouth for a night? Eliminating mouth breathing as a variable may shed more light on the sore throat feeling.

I have not. Just the thought of it makes me anxious and claustrophobic. Even though I am naturally a nose breather. I find I have to make an effort to breathe through my mouth. I get why you're suggesting it, but I just don't think I can do it.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 am

It doesn't take much mouth breathing to cause the dryness you are experiencing. I can get it with as little as 5 or 10 minutes.

The humidifier has a sensor in it that takes into account the ambient room humidity in what it delivers. Meaning as an example if the ambient room humidity is 70% and the setting you select means the machine is supposed to deliver 80% then the machine isn't going to use much water because it doesn't need to.

Now Respironics machines in the past had alternate choice for delivering humidity that took that sensor out of the equation. It was called "classic mode" which just meant the machine turned the heat on to the humidifier heating plate and it was constant and it cranked out a lot of moisture and it didn't care what the ambient humidity in the room was. Rain out was common...

because I think it also took the heated hose out of the equation meaning no heat to help prevent condensation in the hose or mask.

I do not know if the DreamStation models have some sort of classic mode available or not. You can get your manual out for the humidifier and see if it does. I don't have one handy to go look.

Now bear in mind...even if it does and you try it...if you are mouth breathing and that's the cause of the dryness and sore throat then it may not help.

Sleep2Dream · Post by **Sleep2Dream** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:23 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 am
It doesn't take much mouth breathing to cause the dryness you are experiencing. I can get it with as little as 5 or 10 minutes.

The humidifier has a sensor in it that takes into account the ambient room humidity in what it delivers. Meaning as an example if the ambient room humidity is 70% and the setting you select means the machine is supposed to deliver 80% then the machine isn't going to use much water because it doesn't need to.

Now Respironics machines in the past had alternate choice for delivering humidity that took that sensor out of the equation. It was called "classic mode" which just meant the machine turned the heat on to the humidifier heating plate and it was constant and it cranked out a lot of moisture and it didn't care what the ambient humidity in the room was. Rain out was common... because I think it also took the heated hose out of the equation meaning no heat to help prevent condensation in the hose or mask.

I do not know if the DreamStation models have some sort of classic mode available or not. You can get your manual out for the humidifier and see if it does. I don't have one handy to go look.

Now bear in mind...even if it does and you try it...if you are mouth breathing and that's the cause of the dryness and sore throat then it may not help.

Thanks, Pugsy. I don't think my Dreamstation has a classic mode, but I'll check. If it does have it, I guess it'd be worth trying. Sounds like I'd only need it on those super-humid nights. The rest of the time, it's not a problem.

I wish there were a way to find out if I'm mouth breathing without taping my mouth shut!

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:45 am

Sleep2Dream wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:23 am
I wish there were a way to find out if I'm mouth breathing without taping my mouth shut!

I hear you but there is no 100% for sure way that I am aware of because anything else we do to keep the mouth shut doesn't necessarily for sure prevent mouth breathing....case in point...clench your jaws shut with teeth together and just part your lips and breathe...it's easy to breathe that way which is why chin straps and the like don't necessarily stop mouth breathing. Now they can sometimes prevent the jaw from dropping and the mouth from opening but not necessarily prevent mouth breathing.

And not all mouth breathing equals a massive loss in therapy pressure to the point of it affecting therapy. I have proof...a while back I woke up mouth breathing. A gentle mouth breathing (enough to dry my mouth) and not a massive tornado of air out my mouth.
So I decided to just lay there and continue the mouth breathing so that I could see the results on the leak line using the software. I wanted to see just how much of an impact it made. You can see the results below...very minor leak and certainly not large enough to impact therapy effectiveness. I think I did it for about 10 minutes or so then got bored and turned the machine off.
The known mouth breathing is circled in red at the end of the night...it's not remarkable at all. Now don't ask about the prior obvious big leaks...slept right through them. They could easily have been bigger mouth breathing or simply mask movement. I have done experiments with and without taping...and with taping I still got some big leaks which means the mask moved.

I am not afraid to tape my mouth but I understand the reluctance of others. I had the same reluctance at first when I read about it. My first thought was "no way in Hell". What I ended up doing was playing with the tape and I used just plain ordinary blue painters tape while awake and with and without the machine being on. The tape seal was easily broken loose with even a yawn...that eased my mind. It's not cemented on. Then wouldn't you know the very first night I tried the taping we had a thunderstorm and lost power. I woke up not from a problem with breathing but from the quiet...tape still in place and I was moving enough air with the vent holes in the mask to be comfortable. I was not experiencing any suffocation feelings at all. After that I was cool with taping and did it every night for about 3 months. This was when I was first starting cpap therapy and I was doing a LOT of mouth breathing out of habit. Probably from all the past nights of untreated apneas causing me to gasp for air. After about 3 months I got lazy with the taping and didn't do it but the leak graphs looked a lot better. I guess I broke the habit. Now any mouth breathing I might do is rare and doesn't last long so I just don't worry about it. So I don't tape now unless I am doing an experiment to see if the big leaks I am seeing are mouth related or mask movement related and this sometimes happens when I am trying a new mask and wondering about needing further strap adjustments or not.

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:16 am

Sleep2Dream wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:23 am

I wish there were a way to find out if I'm mouth breathing without taping my mouth shut!

you could try jay's scunci method-

viewtopic/p1089718/viewtopic.php?f=1&t= ... s#p1086296

i suggest it because, while you might still not be completely comfortable with it, at least you can know that it's easier to get out of than tape would be.

as to dry mouth, there are various products for relieving it. my favorite is xylimelts. found at drugstores, this otc is a lozenge that rests between tooth and cheek. it slowly dissolves overnight promoting saliva. can be found for sure at either rite aid or cvs. not certain of others. or online at amazon.

good luck!

Sleep2Dream · Post by **Sleep2Dream** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:39 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:45 am

Sleep2Dream wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:23 am
I wish there were a way to find out if I'm mouth breathing without taping my mouth shut!
I hear you but there is no 100% for sure way that I am aware of because anything else we do to keep the mouth shut doesn't necessarily for sure prevent mouth breathing....case in point...clench your jaws shut with teeth together and just part your lips and breathe...it's easy to breathe that way which is why chin straps and the like don't necessarily stop mouth breathing. Now they can sometimes prevent the jaw from dropping and the mouth from opening but not necessarily prevent mouth breathing.

And not all mouth breathing equals a massive loss in therapy pressure to the point of it affecting therapy. I have proof...a while back I woke up mouth breathing. A gentle mouth breathing (enough to dry my mouth) and not a massive tornado of air out my mouth.
So I decided to just lay there and continue the mouth breathing so that I could see the results on the leak line using the software. I wanted to see just how much of an impact it made. You can see the results below...very minor leak and certainly not large enough to impact therapy effectiveness. I think I did it for about 10 minutes or so then got bored and turned the machine off.
The known mouth breathing is circled in red at the end of the night...it's not remarkable at all. Now don't ask about the prior obvious big leaks...slept right through them. They could easily have been bigger mouth breathing or simply mask movement. I have done experiments with and without taping...and with taping I still got some big leaks which means the mask moved.

I am not afraid to tape my mouth but I understand the reluctance of others. I had the same reluctance at first when I read about it. My first thought was "no way in Hell". What I ended up doing was playing with the tape and I used just plain ordinary blue painters tape while awake and with and without the machine being on. The tape seal was easily broken loose with even a yawn...that eased my mind. It's not cemented on. Then wouldn't you know the very first night I tried the taping we had a thunderstorm and lost power. I woke up not from a problem with breathing but from the quiet...tape still in place and I was moving enough air with the vent holes in the mask to be comfortable. I was not experiencing any suffocation feelings at all. After that I was cool with taping and did it every night for about 3 months. This was when I was first starting cpap therapy and I was doing a LOT of mouth breathing out of habit. Probably from all the past nights of untreated apneas causing me to gasp for air. After about 3 months I got lazy with the taping and didn't do it but the leak graphs looked a lot better. I guess I broke the habit. Now any mouth breathing I might do is rare and doesn't last long so I just don't worry about it. So I don't tape now unless I am doing an experiment to see if the big leaks I am seeing are mouth related or mask movement related and this sometimes happens when I am trying a new mask and wondering about needing further strap adjustments or not.

Thanks, Pugsy. Maybe I'll try the painter's tape. I tried the jaw-clenching exercise, and found that the only reliable way to make sure I was breathing through my mouth was to pinch my nose closed. For some reason, my mouth really, really doesn't want to have breath going through it, or so it seems to me. When I pinch my mouth closed and open my mouth and try to mouth breathe, I feel very uncomfortable, like I'm not getting enough air. Very weird.

Bottom line, if I can get the humidity of the cpap air to a comfortable level on a regular basis, I think I'll be okay. I really appreciate everyone's expertise and help here.

Sore Throat and Humidifer--Dreamstation

Sore Throat and Humidifer--Dreamstation

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