OT: Discussion about COVID 19 if you have had it or think you might have it

In my opinion . . .

Since OSA as a condition is said to have a statistical association with heart disease and diabetes and, in turn, heart disease and diabetes presently seem to have a statistical association with serious complications from COVID-19, then scientifically speaking, there IS a statistical relationship between OSA and serious COVID-19 problems, whether we like it worded that way or not in harmony with our desire to prevent people's assumptions about causation.

I therefore choose to give the poster and the doc that was quoted a pass.

All summary statements are a form of shorthand that mean different things from different perspectives. Just because a statement is loosely worded and easily misunderstood does not make the statement completely false or purposely misleading. Expected degrees of exactness on a public board should have some wiggle room, I think.

Especially my statements.

Remember: Statistically speaking, taking a a painkiller makes it more likely you will be in pain, if you go only be the association when you report it.

Hey, just me.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 11:18 am

Since OSA as a condition is said to have a statistical association with heart disease and diabetes and, in turn, heart disease and diabetes presently seem to have a statistical association with serious complications from COVID-19, then scientifically speaking, there IS a statistical relationship between OSA and serious COVID-19 problems

In the article, they beat all around that bush, but never quite scared the bird out.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 1:10 pm

they beat all around that bush, but never quite scared the bird out.

Ain't it the truth! Doc-speak don't always translate well into English. Drives me bananas. I've heard doctors and journalists have entire conversations without once being in the same library--forget about on the same page. Fauci may be one of the only guys on the planet who actually speaks both languages fluently, and that man is a freak of nature. The way many docs speak and reason reminds me of the old joke with the punchline: "Sorry, mister, but you just can't get there from here."

Well.....while I would love to have been wrong...so far from what I heard today about the casino reopening that my sister went to today...
People aren't going to be careful. They are pretty much returning to exactly what they were doing pre Covid in terms of congregation and/or using any sort of safety stuff like masks.

Local casino across the state line in Oklahoma reopened today with some restrictions which was expected. Every other machine turned off and they check your temp before you go in and there's a limit to how many people can be inside at any one time.
My sister and her husband went down there and there was at least a 2 hour wait in line to get inside...no one got in until someone came out...and my sister said people were bunched together like sardines in line..and maybe 10% of the people were wearing some sort of face mask.

Nothing remotely amounting to any social distancing and essentially no protective face coverings. This is what I was expecting but so hoping that people would prove me wrong.

This virus is going nowhere anytime soon except to catch a ride on more foolish humans and increasing the amount of people at risk.

Well, when WHO says (who? yes!) the virus may be "here to stay" and shrugs, and even the guvnuh of this here exemplary empire state says yes he expects the number of deaths to rise from, uh, pausing the pause, or unpausing the pause, or whatever the heck it is, but he's gonna do it anyway, it appears to me that the world has gone madder than a May hare and it may be time to dig up the provisions, grow a beard, shave my head, and go off the grid in a cave somewhere up in the hills. Someone please sound the all-clear when it is safe to reenter human society. Thank you, good night, and good grief.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 11:18 am

In my opinion . . .

Since OSA as a condition

*untreated* OSA.

They just took a poll right here, and 45% of the responders have NO intention to wear masks in public.
I'd rather not be anywhere near them unless it is unavoidable.
Luckily, the places I need to go have mostly responsible people shopping.
Maybe I will wait to visit other places.

palerider wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 8:11 pm

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 11:18 am

In my opinion . . .

Since OSA as a condition

*untreated* OSA.

The association exists for both treated and untreated. It would be great if CPAP magically made diabetes and heart conditions vanish into pressurized air, but even the best treatments often leave comorbidities mostly untouched despite possibly preventing or slowing deterioration.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 10:15 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 8:11 pm

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 11:18 am

In my opinion . . .

Since OSA as a condition

*untreated* OSA.

The association exists for both treated and untreated. It would be great if CPAP magically made diabetes and heart conditions vanish into pressurized air, but even the best treatments often leave comorbidities mostly untouched despite possibly preventing or slowing deterioration.

You're grasping at straws to validate some shoddy writing.

Untreated sleep apnea can lead to sudden death in many ways, like falling asleep at the wheel, but treated sleep apnea doesn't.

*treated* sleep apnea doesn't make you more susceptible to developing COVID-19.

People develop heart conditions and diabetes all by themselves without having sleep apnea, all the time. one does not necessarily lead to the other. and there are many people who have sleep apnea that DON'T end up with heart conditions and diabetes.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat May 16, 2020 7:09 am

straws

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat May 16, 2020 7:09 am

validate

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat May 16, 2020 7:09 am

lead to

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat May 16, 2020 7:09 am

make you

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat May 16, 2020 7:09 am

lead to

You are discussing causation; I am discussing association. But, yes, that IS the primary disconnect between responsible research scientists, journalists, editorial headline copy writers, clinicians, and the public. Research docs say there is a statistical relationship, and then the headlines always say "causes" or "leads to" or the like when reporting.

I need no straws. I don't validate; I attempt to translate the imperfect, because all brief articles in the vernacular are shoddy and misleading by those admirable standards.

For the record, I respect your positions, PR. Always have. Even when I attempt to translate, without validation.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Thu May 14, 2020 12:00 pm

Getting an antibody test tomorrow.

Wife and I both came back negative, according to our Zoom telehealth appointment with our PCP today.

Whether that is good news or bad news is open to interpretation.

My view is that we provided two imperfect data points to get factored into the assessment of the governmental decision-makers in figuring out present local circumstances. Neither result would have changed anything about our personal behaviors in being safe and helping others be safe.

Let's be safe out there, officers.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Sat May 23, 2020 10:24 am

Let's be safe out there, officers.

i'm choosing to believe your test meant that you and your good wife will live forever.

zonker wrote: ↑

Sat May 23, 2020 10:45 am

i'm choosing to believe your test meant that you and your good wife will live forever.

Thanks, Zonker. That would be nice. Our preference, in fact. But, hey, we also don't really mind spending a little time underground first, if it comes down to it.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Sat May 23, 2020 1:21 pm

zonker wrote: ↑

Sat May 23, 2020 10:45 am

i'm choosing to believe your test meant that you and your good wife will live forever.

Thanks, Zonker. That would be nice. Our preference, in fact. But, hey, we also don't really mind spending a little time underground first, if it comes down to it.

my own personal feeling is that i'm going to live forever or die trying.

I am reminded of the comedian who said that all those health-food nuts are going to feel silly one day when they die of absolutely nothing.