COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

raisedfist wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 6:30 pm

The news bombarded us so much with "flatten the curve" without people stopping to think about the fact that it just spreads the infections out, not the total deaths.

If hospitals are overloaded, more people die.
If people get sick while doctors are still trying to figure out what the best way to treat the disease is, more people die.

So, yes, "flattening the curve" has saved lives.

zonker wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 6:55 pm

raisedfist wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 6:30 pm

I decided early on to just do whatever I felt was necessary to protect myself. You can't rely on the CDC when for months they said masks were a waste of time lol.

i think that's a bit unfair. isn't the cdc allowed to learn more about the virus and make a different decision based on the new information they glean?

afaik, that's how science is supposed to work, isn't it?

The Centers for Damaged Credibility IS having a rough time being taken seriously these days, even by Dr. Deb herself, if you believe the sources of the Washington Post:

Mr. Dawsey and friends wrote:“There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust,” Birx said, according to two of the people.--https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

But at least the CDC understands that it takes more than social distancing and a flattened curve to actually save lives in the long run:

CDC dudes wrote: "Hospitalizations and deaths averted during the first 100 days in our model would likely occur later if the interventions are lifted without taking any further action, such as widespread testing, self-isolation of infected persons, and contact tracing."--https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1093_article

jnk... wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 12:10 pm

The in-home transmissions proves the dangers of simple grocery shopping instead of presenting an argument suggesting otherwise, I believe.

Are you having all your groceries delivered? Due to advanced age and other health problems, Gramps and I are both vulnerable to death from COVID-19. Yet, we are still going to the grocery store once per week. This trip is scary. Gramps is the kind of person who has never worried about anything - until now. He's worried.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 1:15 pm

I have personally seen people get downright NASTY when asked to use a mask.
Do you choose to accept the "official" definition of "fake news"?
Or do you temper your thoughts with the knowledge that media is hideously COMPETITIVE,
and somewhat unreliable/irresponsible at best?
This has been the case for over a hundred years--not just lately.
Remember "yellow journalism"? Oh, yes, that was YESTERDAY.

You mean like this? ----->

PaleRider: Of course, we can slow the spread by wearing masks to protect others, but the idiots will screw that up like they do everything else. I had a confrontation at Costco this week. I wanted to talk to the manager to pass on a compliment about one of the supervisors. There was an idiot haranguing him about the new corporate policy that everyone has to wear a mask, employees and customers. "I'm not going to wear a mask, you can't make me, it's ridiculous to compare the deaths from this deaths from the Vietnam war, I'm going to cancel my membership!". At which point, I broke in and said that as an immunocompromised person, I was just fine with him not spreading disease in the store", of course he didn't like that, "you're not part of this conversation, besides, you're wearing a mask, you're protected!", to which I replied "that's.not how the masks work.". He huffed off, and I passed my complements on to the manager and condolences for having to put up with assholes, it's not like he has any choice about corporate policies.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 10:29 pm

The Centers for Damaged Credibility IS having a rough time being taken seriously these days, even by Dr. Deb herself, if you believe the sources of the Washington Post:

Mr. Dawsey and friends wrote:“There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust,” Birx said, according to two of the people.--https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

But at least the CDC understands that it takes more than social distancing and a flattened curve to actually save lives in the long run:

CDC dudes wrote: "Hospitalizations and deaths averted during the first 100 days in our model would likely occur later if the interventions are lifted without taking any further action, such as widespread testing, self-isolation of infected persons, and contact tracing."--https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1093_article

i take your point. but i feel this mistrust of the cdc is due to what is happening at the executive level, not on the actual science being done there.

my thought is that the science being produced there is being messed with by the higher ups. take, for example, their guidelines for the re-opening of meat packing plants. these guidelines, from my viewpoint, were modified to make them sound more like suggestions than anything mandatory. they weren't worded as past cdc guidelines have been, wherein the cdc pulled no punches.

what is the answer? i really hope that a change in administration can get the ball rolling. but any such change can't happen until the end of jan 2021.

can we last that long?

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 8:27 am

Are you having all your groceries delivered?

My situation is unique. But, in a sense, yes. We order a lot of nonperishable delivered by Amazon, Sam's, and Costco. And my wife has access to fresh food that is being delivered within walking distance inside the locked-down complex where we live.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 8:27 am

Gramps and I are both vulnerable to death from COVID-19. Yet, we are still going to the grocery store once per week. This trip is scary. Gramps is the kind of person who has never worried about anything - until now. He's worried

Gramps sounds like a truly smart cookie, like you.

My father is a few states away from me and presently takes advantage of the very early senior hours at local stores, stocking up so that he will have several weeks' worth to be able to stay in once his state gets as bad as mine.

Please be careful out there, Gran.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 8:27 am

Due to advanced age and other health problems, Gramps and I are both vulnerable to death from COVID-19.

Everybody is vulnerable to death from COVID-19, Young people are dying from blood clots caused by the virus.

zonker wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 10:45 am

i take your point. but i feel this mistrust of the cdc is due to what is happening at the executive level, not on the actual science being done there.

The sheeple always want something that evolving science can't give.

Science, in a case like this isn't about answers, it's about discovery, previous theories are always being contradicted by new discoveries, and the sheeple don't want, or understand that, so... they say "but last week, you said this" and don't believe, because they don't understand that science knowledge evolves with new information.

As to the supposed 'leaders' , tiss probably best for me not to comment.

zonker wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 10:45 am

the actual science being done there.

I agree that many of the attacks are unwarranted and politically motivated. But my positions require strict political neutrality to the best of my ability.

Unfortunately, the sad reality is that smart scientific institutions can't ignore political climate and economic factors anymore, though, if they expect funding and street cred.

Pure science must be artfully communicated by trained and experienced mediators to be the face of the scientific institutions, for statements both to those in power and to the public, in order to be relevant in influencing policy. When the choice is rock or hard place, there is no winning that game. Rule of thumb, at this point, seems to be that if everyone on both sides is angry with you, then you must be doing a pretty good job communicating.

It is getting harder to insulate and protect those doing the raw science, if one even believes in the concept of raw untainted science at this point. Scientists are humans. And humans are humans. No one exists in a vacuum. Not even card-carrying so-called purists.

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 am

As to the supposed 'leaders' , tiss probably best for me not to comment.

My tongue and fingers are a bloody pulp from trying to refrain from comments from the idiot brigade.

Again my biggest complaint about people in general....where in the hell is a little thing called "common sense"....doesn't take a rocket scientist to use common sense...unfortunately it seems to be in short supply again.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:19 am

Pure science must be artfully communicated by trained and experienced mediators to be the face of the scientific institutions, for statements both to those in power and to the public, in order to be relevant in influencing policy. When the choice is rock or hard place, there is no winning that game. Rule of thumb, at this point, seems to be that if everyone on both sides is angry with you, then you must be doing a pretty good job communicating.

This.

Humans are an emotionally-motivated species. Many of us simply aren't rational. The problem with science communication today is that it is sanitized, bleached, white-papered, starched and pressed to death first by the scientists, and then vilified, crucified, bent and twisted out of all fact and reason by journalists looking for a viral hook that will splash headlines.

If scientists want to reach the masses, they're going to have to skip the white papers and journalists and become evangelists. That means taking classes on preaching the "good word" of science in an emotional way that will reach people on a gut level who aren't as well equipped to think rationally.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:39 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 am

As to the supposed 'leaders' , tiss probably best for me not to comment.

My tongue and fingers are a bloody pulp from trying to refrain from comments from the idiot brigade. . . .

This board has obviously and uncharacteristically become absolutely overrun with wanton restraint!

* Snoredog rolls over in grave. *

DreamDiver wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:48 am

then vilified, crucified, bent and twisted out of all fact and reason by journalists looking for a viral hook that will splash headlines.

You said it, brother. Amen and amen.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:50 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:39 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 am

As to the supposed 'leaders' , tiss probably best for me not to comment.

My tongue and fingers are a bloody pulp from trying to refrain from comments from the idiot brigade. . . .

This board has obviously and uncharacteristically become absolutely overrun with wanton restraint!

* Snoredog rolls over in grave. *

How true. Snoredog must be shouting what a bunch of pansy ass wussies we are.
I for one am rather glad that we haven't resorted to personal attacks because then I have to get out my ruler with the nail spikes in it.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Wed May 13, 2020 11:58 am

my ruler with the nail spikes in it.

Duly noted.

I think I just wet myself a little.