Why the hell would I use a humidifier.

Lucyhere · Post by **Lucyhere** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:19 pm

palerider wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Perhaps next time you go somewhere new, you'll do it with more class.

Class you say ... just how many more times does the man have to apologize?

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:26 pm

Guinges wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:13 pm
I should't have been drinking wine when I posted originally. But too late. Lesson learnt. I like to make things larger than life when I'm feeling merry.

Well, you're certainly not the only person who's posted here after drinking... I'm hoping you'll turn out to be better than the last.

Guinges wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:13 pm
I have been thinking about why some people may need humidification and others might not. Could it be related to the degree of mouth leak that is occurring?

Some people have dead flat leak lines, and still need humidification (or they're using a FFM).... though mouth leaking certainly will exacerbate dryness... nasal and oral.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:27 pm

Lucyhere wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:19 pm

palerider wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Perhaps next time you go somewhere new, you'll do it with more class.
Class you say ... just how many more times does the man have to apologize?

I'd say he'll be done about the time you post something useful.

On second thought, long before.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:43 pm

Aromatherapy (a drop of essential oils on a cotton ball outside the air intake)
can improve the smell of plastic, or one's own recycled halitosis--until we get used to therapy.

zoocrewphoto · Post by **zoocrewphoto** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:58 pm

palerider wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:26 pm

Guinges wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:13 pm
I should't have been drinking wine when I posted originally. But too late. Lesson learnt. I like to make things larger than life when I'm feeling merry.
Well, you're certainly not the only person who's posted here after drinking... I'm hoping you'll turn out to be better than the last.
Guinges wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:13 pm
I have been thinking about why some people may need humidification and others might not. Could it be related to the degree of mouth leak that is occurring?
Some people have dead flat leak lines, and still need humidification (or they're using a FFM).... though mouth leaking certainly will exacerbate dryness... nasal and oral.

I am a mouth breather, so I need the humidification to mostly avoid dry mouth. If the water runs out, I get a really dry mouth. That also happens if my asthma is acting up and I have to breathe through my mouth a lot during the day.

My mom uses the same type of mask, and she doesn't use the humidifier at all. So, it really is personal preference.

Also, I usually don't use the heat. In the winter, I may raise it a little, like 68. If I am sharing a hotel room or staying with my sister, I will use a higher temp so that I don't get condensation in the hose, which sounds terrible. But I prefer the cooler air. I do not have any issues with smell in the hose, and I am very sensitive to smells.

zorki1c · Post by **zorki1c** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:12 pm

Depends on where you live. We live in the high desert where humidity is seldom above 20 percent. Without a humidifier you nasal passages can dry out enough to cause nose bleeds. When I visited Hawaii there was no need for extra humidity. Wasn’t necessary when we took a river cruise from Moscow to St. Petersburg either. But if you live in arid areas you need humidity.

zorki1c · Post by **zorki1c** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:19 pm

And use distilled water.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:23 pm

zorki1c wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:19 pm
And use distilled water.

Unnecessary.

SDBud · Post by **SDBud** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:39 pm

Guinges wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:07 pm
I hope I am reasonably educated in bacteriology, physics, medicine, respirology etc
Why would you pass the air you breath through a heated moist tube that could enable bacteria to grow?
The CPAP machine doesn't dry out the air that you breath. It is just passing through a fan of sorts that is increasing your pressure.
You are breathing room air in the normal amounts and at the normal rate.
I put aside the humidifier, half of that bulky machine, and changed the stinky bacteria infested tube and I am now enjoying cool fresh air "morning air", and of course my nose doesn't dry out like a prune. The machine is not drying out the air I breathe, it is simply delivering normal room air at a slightly higher pressure....and I love it!

You can use, OR not use, the humidifier AND any other thing you want. Hell, you can shove the hose up your rosy red rectum if you like.
But DOES it really make you feel better to be such a jackass??

CPAPLuv · Post by **CPAPLuv** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:23 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:04 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:53 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:46 pm
let it go and accept the apology
Is an apology still due for lying about education and being a MD?
That's assuming facts not in evidence.
Personal opinion and YMMV stuff.

Hey....I look at it this way...he got started off on a bad note and instead of getting uppity about it and doing more stone throwing back he apologized and took his lumps like a man. I don't fault anyone for that and in my mind it speaks volumes as to his character.
Unlike another recent newbie whose character is scrapping the bottom of the barrel IMHO.

So it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if he does or doesn't have some fancy letters after his name.
Letters don't make the man/woman. Actions do though.
I am more than willing to let by gones be by gones and move on and pretend the ugly didn't happen. It's so much easier on my digestion anyway. I prefer to look for the good in people and not the bad.....though I will admit that some people really make me have to go dig out a really big microscope. Not the OP here though. I am prepared to move on and proceed as normal and not let my bitchy self show.... too much anyway.

I soo agree with this! I have been reading the entire thread and the OP has apologized and tried to make amends in spite of having enduring a lot of blowback. So, IMHO it's time to move on. That's how you have a civilized conversation. Also, I have to add that I have done a ton of reading on this forum and have learned so much! I think Pugsy does a great job moderating and also gives some very good and balanced advice. The people that come on here have serious medical issues and need serious answers because a lot of the time they are not getting it from their doctors. I appreciate having a place to come and get answers from people who really want to help and have the knowledge and experience to do so.

Guinges · Post by **Guinges** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:12 am

1) I started the thread mostly because I couldn’t understand why humidification should be necessary based on a modest scientific understanding of human anatomy, physiology, physics etc. My argument was that CPAP doesn’t dry out the air we breathe or increase the amount of air we breathe and so it shouldn’t be necessary.

2) I took that argument a step further and suggested (for the sake of argument) that we were all being duped, and that humidification shouldn’t in theory (my theory) be necessary.

3) Thirdly, I was experiencing an unpleasant smell in my tube that I couldn’t eradicate. I stopped using humidification and changed the tube and am now enjoying cool fresh air that is like “breathing morning air”. With my modest knowledge of bacteriology and mycology I couldn’t understand why I had been following convention and breathing air that passed over a heated tank of water and through a heated moist tube and was suffering the (in my case) smelly, stuffy consequences.

From the information in this thread and from thinking further and doing some more research I have come up with the following theories and observations:

I) It is clear from this thread that a lot of people do need humidification to prevent dry nose and mouth and other symptoms and are not being duped. I would add, however, that some people may be using it when they don’t need it. A few people on the thread reported that they didn’t use humidification.

II) My theory is that with a nasal mask, mouth leaks are common. A mouth leak will increase the flow of air through the nose and mouth leading to dryness of both. The people who find they need humidification with a nasal mask may be experiencing a degree of mouth leakage. A person using a full-face mask who is often mouth breathing will get a dry mouth just like someone who mouth breathes without using CPAP does. The mouth isn’t really designed for breathing like the nose is. Someone commented that some people require humidification and yet have flat leak rates. It may be that these people, have other nasal conditions such as chronic rhinitis (very common), Sjogren's syndrome (much less common) and that nasal humidification is helping them significantly. These people would benefit regardless of whether they had sleep apnoea or not.

III) Regarding bacteria, fungi and resulting smells. I have learnt from this thread that many people manage their humidification system well and have not encountered issues.

Thank you.

JayDee · Post by **JayDee** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:19 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:04 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:53 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:46 pm
let it go and accept the apology
Is an apology still due for lying about education and being a MD?
That's assuming facts not in evidence.
Personal opinion and YMMV stuff.

Hey....I look at it this way...he got started off on a bad note and instead of getting uppity about it and doing more stone throwing back he apologized and took his lumps like a man. I don't fault anyone for that and in my mind it speaks volumes as to his character.
Unlike another recent newbie whose character is scrapping the bottom of the barrel IMHO.

So it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if he does or doesn't have some fancy letters after his name.
Letters don't make the man/woman. Actions do though.
I am more than willing to let by gones be by gones and move on and pretend the ugly didn't happen. It's so much easier on my digestion anyway. I prefer to look for the good in people and not the bad.....though I will admit that some people really make me have to go dig out a really big microscope. Not the OP here though. I am prepared to move on and proceed as normal and not let my bitchy self show.... too much anyway.

Well, that's because you have far more patience and grace than most and is among the many darned good reasons why you hold the mod-hammer.

I admire your optimism!

-JD

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:37 am

JayDee wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:19 am
I admire your optimism!

Thanks. I have to have it with this job or else I would go crazier than I already am.

My personal outlook on life in general.....if all a person looks for is negatives then that's all they will ever find and it's a pretty sad life.
Positives are harder to find and that's what makes them true gems. Worth looking for.
I am not always successful but I try. Life is tough enough without zeroing in on the negatives so that a person gets tunnel vision and that's all they see.

Not to mention I can catch more flies with a sugar coated rational explanation about something than I can swinging a 2 X 4 laden with nails.

I will swing it if I have to but I would rather use sugar coating...it's not nearly as much work.

Guinges · Post by **Guinges** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:52 am

I'd like to say thanks too Pugsy and I may not stick around (they all cheer). Thanks to the forum for helping me work through my conundrum. I may not have a perfect explanation but my thoughts are a lot clearer any way. I do like forums for that reason.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:14 pm

Guinges wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:12 am
1) I started the thread mostly because I couldn’t understand why humidification should be necessary based on a modest scientific understanding of human anatomy, physiology, physics etc. My argument was that CPAP doesn’t dry out the air we breathe or increase the amount of air we breathe and so it shouldn’t be necessary.

2) I took that argument a step further and suggested (for the sake of argument) that we were all being duped, and that humidification shouldn’t in theory (my theory) be necessary.

3) Thirdly, I was experiencing an unpleasant smell in my tube that I couldn’t eradicate. I stopped using humidification and changed the tube and am now enjoying cool fresh air that is like “breathing morning air”. With my modest knowledge of bacteriology and mycology I couldn’t understand why I had been following convention and breathing air that passed over a heated tank of water and through a heated moist tube and was suffering the (in my case) smelly, stuffy consequences.

From the information in this thread and from thinking further and doing some more research I have come up with the following theories and observations:

I) It is clear from this thread that a lot of people do need humidification to prevent dry nose and mouth and other symptoms and are not being duped. I would add, however, that some people may be using it when they don’t need it. A few people on the thread reported that they didn’t use humidification.

II) My theory is that with a nasal mask, mouth leaks are common. A mouth leak will increase the flow of air through the nose and mouth leading to dryness of both. The people who find they need humidification with a nasal mask may be experiencing a degree of mouth leakage. A person using a full-face mask who is often mouth breathing will get a dry mouth just like someone who mouth breathes without using CPAP does. The mouth isn’t really designed for breathing like the nose is. Someone commented that some people require humidification and yet have flat leak rates. It may be that these people, have other nasal conditions such as chronic rhinitis (very common), Sjogren's syndrome (much less common) and that nasal humidification is helping them significantly. These people would benefit regardless of whether they had sleep apnoea or not.

III) Regarding bacteria, fungi and resulting smells. I have learnt from this thread that many people manage their humidification system well and have not encountered issues.

Thank you.

Ever heard of "pub med"? Ever tried using it?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27220350
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236868
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19961025
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20503074

It took me less time to find those references than it did for you to type your opening diatribe.

If you really are a medical professional, as you alleged in your opening post, you should be ashamed at your pathetic ability to communicate, research and THINK. I pity your patients, if indeed you have any.

Why the hell would I use a humidifier.

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