New (UARS) -- lots of questions

Part of the shallow appearance of those breaths has to do with the graph scale.
I think fixing the graph scale will make them more normal looking but I don't know how to tell you to fix it. Beyond my skill level.
Let me ask Palerider what he thinks and/or how to fix it.

Mine looks very similar to yours though when I zoom in on a time frame where I am asleep. Asleep we just don't take in very deep breaths and it has nothing to do with the airway trying to close off.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:38 pm

Part of the shallow appearance of those breaths has to do with the graph scale.
I think fixing the graph scale will make them more normal looking but I don't know how to tell you to fix it. Beyond my skill level.
Let me ask Palerider what he thinks and/or how to fix it.

Mine looks very similar to yours though when I zoom in on a time frame where I am asleep. Asleep we just don't take in very deep breaths and it has nothing to do with the airway trying to close off.

Fixed the graph scale after uploading those screenshots: right click on graph title > Y-Axis > Override, and entered a range that should cover any normal night's variations.

Forgot to ask before, but of those of you who currently use / stand by the Bleep, is the price of the adhesive strips worth buying the mask? $30 for half a month's use is pretty outrageous.

The Trazadone could very well just be making the mouth easier to dry out with just maybe a slight amount of mouth breathing.
Maybe not bad enough by itself but when you add in a little mouth breathing then it gets worse easier than it might dry out if you weren't on the Trazadone.

Either one by themselves might not be horrible but add them together and it gets bad...kind of thing.

I want you to be able to decide if the centrals you see are awake/arousal centrals vs asleep centrals....especially if you are going to play around with PS. You assumed the centrals increased last night because of the increase in PS but those could just have easily been arousal related. We need to know for sure if increasing PS creates a central issue for you or not if you are going to play with it.
Not everyone will have a problem with higher PS.

Pick some settings and stick with them for at least a week. Keep your variables to a minimum....if you are going to be taking medications then take them consistently. Don't keep changing various potential factors.

Remember Science 101....keep your variables to an absolute minimum so you can best measure your results.
Medications are a variable...changing various settings are considered variables.

There are some websites where you can order the Bleep ports in bulk and get a price break.
Amazon has the 32 count box for 24 bucks. Free shipping if Prime member. Not sure what it would be if not since I can't see that.

I do understand that the nightly cost can be a big negative for some people.
It amounts to a 1.50 a night at 24 bucks for 16 nights.

I have similar thoughts every time I make myself a cup of coffee with Keurig using a K cup pod. I have to think...is that cup of coffee worth it.
Is 1.50 a night worth not having to use headgear for me...yep...it is because I hate having dents on my cheeks from the straps and I hate having mask movement leaks from the straps sliding up the back of my head.

We all have to decide what is important in our lives and prioritize what is worth it to each of us as an individual and what wouldn't be worth it.

I would like to see you try the P10 first though...did you ever get that missing part?

zan wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:42 pm

Forgot to ask before, but of those of you who currently use / stand by the Bleep, is the price of the adhesive strips worth buying the mask? $30 for half a month's use is pretty outrageous.

This is the only thing I really don't like about the Bleep; no way way around it. Ideally they could find a way to reduce this cost in the future.

My insurance does cover it though, so aside from deductibles, I don't have same out of pocket costs as you might.

If you do buy without insurance, you can often find 15% coupons, that can at least help.

zan wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:28 pm

.
I'm most interested in how shallow my breaths are. You can see in these examples from last night, especially in the second graph, how close I am to basically not taking in any air at all

I think Pugsy has already addressed this on the next page (She asked me to take a look at this specifically), Your breaths aren't anywhere near 'how close I am to basically not taking in any air at all', you're looking at a chart that has a ridiculous scale.

Go to your Oscar chart, move your mouse over on the flow rate chart to where it says "flow rate" and the x axis and right click, select x-axis, then 'override', and put in some sane numbers like -60 to 60, (the auto scale thing is often nuts, take one big sigh, or cough during the night and the whole scale is useless... that's something that's on the "to be fixed" in future versions.

Your tidal volume stats over on the left of those charts shows you're breathing fine.

Re: the P10s -- I've been cringing at the prices on eBay for the part I'm missing (frame and short hose), it's half the cost of a new Bleep, more than half if you consider that cpap.com has a discount on the Bleep right now. The P10s were one of the masks I'd tried on at the sleep center when I got my results back and I remember being unimpressed by how easily they leaked with just a slight tilt of my head regardless of cushion size. I'm going to think on it for a couple days since I've already made enough impulsive decisions this past week. I'll have my eye on the P10 assembly kit for any price drops, but there's a reason I went with the N20 after I tried both masks on. If swapping the N20 for the P10s means getting less on my face in return for more leaks, I'd rather stick with what I've got.

palerider -- adjusted my graphs to a more sane level thank you.

slowriter -- Technically I have a prescription for CPAP from my sleep study, but I'm not sure if my insurance will acquiesce to paying for a mask when it can't stick its eyes into my machine as well. Insurance is going to be a whole mess additionally because both of my parents are changing their plans at the end of the year and I'll be under a different insurance company with an as-of-yet uncertain policy. Not sure if my Rx, which was approved by my current plan, will be accepted by the new provider as well, so I suppose I'll have to sit down with my parents and discuss that as well. I'm sure they're sick of hearing me talk about my medical needs, but I'm also sick of having them

zan wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:24 pm

slowriter -- Technically I have a prescription for CPAP from my sleep study, but I'm not sure if my insurance will acquiesce to paying for a mask when it can't stick its eyes into my machine as well. Insurance is going to be a whole mess additionally because both of my parents are changing their plans at the end of the year and I'll be under a different insurance company with an as-of-yet uncertain policy. Not sure if my Rx, which was approved by my current plan, will be accepted by the new provider as well, so I suppose I'll have to sit down with my parents and discuss that as well. I'm sure they're sick of hearing me talk about my medical needs, but I'm also sick of having them

You may want to read some back-and-forth on my thread about insurance companies, DMEs, and supplies; starting here.

I've not had any problem getting my insurance company to pay for supplies, including masks, despite the fact that I bought a gently used vauto on my own, and I have yet to use my bilevel prescription.

I did buy the initial Bleep out of pocket, just to be sure that's what I wanted longer term (and because I wasn't due for a new mask for a couple months), so yeah, it might not hurt to ask for that xmas present from the parents.

zan wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:24 pm

palerider -- adjusted my graphs to a more sane level thank you.

Do they look better? I usually manually set the graphs at -60 to 60, that works well for most folks. sure... some peaks will go past the graph, but you rarely care about those while evaluating breaths.

I don't know how they put the P10 on you but it wasn't nearly correct if it leaked so bad that you didn't even try to sleep with it.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:50 am

I don't know how they put the P10 on you but it wasn't nearly correct if it leaked so bad that you didn't even try to sleep with it.

So many things were weird about that clinic in retrospect. The guy who fitted me with the masks seemed very out of it, as if he'd just finished an overnight PSG and was ready to nap. I also had to ask him what masks and sizes they'd let me try on -- he was fully prepared to leave after the fittings without giving me a single hint as to what had just been on my face. I'm glad you brought this up, because although I did have an uninspiring time with the P10s and would love to give the Bleep a try at some point, I'm not in a good place to be regularly shelling out money for Dreamports. I suppose it'd be a shame if I never gave those parts you sent me a try.

I'll be spending today looking over the ApneaBoard reviews for the P10 and P30i. I'm pretty sold on the Bleep as a concept but the price of the Dreamports is a severe drawback. I'd be willing to give the P10s another try but again, money being the limiting factor here, and $50 isn't chump change for someone who already spent $400 on a machine (after a steep discount, after splitting the cost with my parents). Finding a mask that is comfortable, has excellent leak control, and can be afforded with a one-time payment is my goal.

I've been moving very fast with treatment and my lack of expertise is catching up with me... I did as much research as I could on sleep apnea, UARS, and CPAP before I got on the machine, but I'm now at the point where I have to slow down and treat myself like the beginner I am. I've been making a lot of decisions in a short period of time and it's dizzying.


palerider: Yep, my graphs are much more readable now. c: I also fixed the scales on my leak rate graph since that had a lot of annoying variation. See below for proof!

slowriter: Thanks again for the resource. I'm avoiding insurance as much as possible because it's always been a mess and it's going to be even more of a mess for the next few months while our policies get switched over.

----------

Bed at ~10:45, woke at 7:30. Took 3mg melatonin. Decided not to take Trazodone -- I know, I'm messing with the variables -- but I'm starting to get low on the medication and am not able to get a new prescription for it very soon, so I'm saving it for my truly sleepless nights.

Settings: Min EPAP 6.6, Max IPAP 20, PS 5.6.

Subjectively: Had a few awakenings due to leaks. Took the mask off briefly just after 5am to take off my mouth tape since I didn't seem to need it, drink water because my mouth was dry, and readjust the mask -- I discovered that one of the magnetic attachments on the N20 headgear wasn't locked in place, which could explain many of the leaks that occurred beforehand.
It's still annoying to wake up so frequently due to leaks, and the dry mouth is still icky, but other than those disturbances I slept alright. I feel like I'm getting a glimpse of how non-disordered people feel after sleeping, it's wild. Right now leaks are my biggest discomfort.

OSCAR: Nice fat FR chart shows that I actually don't breathe as shallowly at all times as I thought. Those leaks are so annoying. Going to talk to my dad about getting a different mask when he gets home from work tonight.

Just hold onto the P10 stuff I sent you for now. We will find a short hose assembly for you to try at some point that won't break the bank.
Either on EBay (I have seen them run about $22 on occasion so check EBay often) or maybe one of the forum members has an old one you can try.
They are pretty much indestructible with common sense care. I had one but cut the hose off to try it with the Bleep or you could have had mine.

If you never use the pillows or head gear I sent you....you can always return them to me or simply offer them here on the forum to someone else but you don't have to do that right now.

Other than the leaks, that's a nice looking chart.

I've been using the p10 for four or five years, and I'm on my second frame, the hose started to tear on the first after 4 years or so., Like pugsy said, they're pretty tough.

Everything you do is appreciated beyond words, Pugsy Should I make a separate post (e.g. "Looking for P10 frame + short hose system") so others will notice?

palerider: Impressive.

Go ahead and start a new thread asking if someone has a P10 frame they could part with for cheap...used is fine.
Ugly is fine (they do tend to turn yellow with time and get ugly but doesn't hurt them).

Someone who might have one laying around may not bother to read this thread or even the Great Pillow Exchange thread.