At RX max pressure- go higher?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Bednbones
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At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Bednbones » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:01 am

So with the help of my last post, I have been raising my pressure and doing better. Thank you everyone for that as I had some anxiety with it.

Last night I set my minimum to 8 and max to 12. My RX says 4-12. I felt like I slept great. I slept on my stomach with cut out pillow help from someone on the board. 👍My nose was clear when I went to bed using RC (respiratory care) and majoram Essential Oil.

I had 100% mask fit, AHI of 4 (that’s my lowest ever and first time under 5), my 90% was 11.9.

So should I keep raising my max pressure to get my AHI lower. Again my RX says max 12. Or should I just leave it and be happy with my AHI being lower than 5.

Thank you in advance for the help.

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Pugsy
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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Pugsy » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:05 am

Before increasing the pressure to kill off apnea events composing the AHI you first have to determine which category of apnea events you are experiencing because some apnea events can't be killed with more pressure.

What is the event category breakdown of that AHI of 4?
How much in each category???

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Bednbones
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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Bednbones » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:34 am

Pugsy wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:05 am
Before increasing the pressure to kill off apnea events composing the AHI you first have to determine which category of apnea events you are experiencing because some apnea events can't be killed with more pressure.

What is the event category breakdown of that AHI of 4?
How much in each category???
Okay, more new information. I didn’t realize that apnea events were treated differently. Can you tell me which are helped with pressure? Should I go back to read the Newbie post? Did I miss something important?

My CA was 9
OA was 15
H was 11

I can’t check my sleepyhead because I write protected my SD card last time I uploaded it and forgot to push it back before putting it back in my DS. Duh. Newbie move.

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Pugsy
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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Pugsy » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:47 am

CAs/centrals....won't be helped with more pressure because the airway is already open. You just aren't trying to breathe. Hold your breath for 10 seconds...that's essentially a 10 second central apnea....no air is moving but it's not moving because you aren't trying.

OA and hyponea are typically what we expect to respond (reduce) to more pressure.

Without seeing the detailed graphs I suspect you need at least a little more maximum and maybe a little more minimum to reduce the OAs and hyponeas......assuming you were asleep when they were flagged and not awake.

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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by palerider » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:37 pm

Bednbones wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:01 am
So should I keep raising my max pressure to get my AHI lower. Again my RX says max 12. Or should I just leave it and be happy with my AHI being lower than 5.

Thank you in advance for the help.
Rx's are very often wrong... If they were usually right, and doctors have good results... This (and other) self help forums wouldn't exist. The simple fact of the 4-12 RX means your doctor doesn't know what he's doing.

5 is a bad ahi, even if it is "good enough" for those doctors.

Set max to 20, and keep raising min till your obstructives and hypos come down.

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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by SDBud » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:41 pm

Bednbones wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:01 am
So with the help of my last post, I have been raising my pressure and doing better. Thank you everyone for that as I had some anxiety with it.

Last night I set my minimum to 8 and max to 12. My RX says 4-12. I felt like I slept great. I slept on my stomach with cut out pillow help from someone on the board. 👍My nose was clear when I went to bed using RC (respiratory care) and majoram Essential Oil.

I had 100% mask fit, AHI of 4 (that’s my lowest ever and first time under 5), my 90% was 11.9.

So should I keep raising my max pressure to get my AHI lower. Again my RX says max 12. Or should I just leave it and be happy with my AHI being lower than 5.

Thank you in advance for the help.
Since your 90% level is basically AT your max, you really should raise the max. The machine WON'T go there unless it is needed.
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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by TropicalDiver » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:47 pm

palerider wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:37 pm
Rx's are very often wrong... If they were usually right, and doctors have good results... This (and other) self help forums wouldn't exist. The simple fact of the 4-12 RX means your doctor doesn't know what he's doing.

5 is a bad ahi, even if it is "good enough" for those doctors.

Set max to 20, and keep raising min till your obstructives and hypos come down.
A little context. 4 is the lowest the machine will go -- many patients struggle at 4 as they feel like there is not enough air. My sense is that would be a very unusual patient for whom 4 is the best starting point. Testing in the lab is great -- but sometimes the results are different than when you are at home. It is always possible that your doc saw something in your test results when your max pressure went much higher -- perhaps more centrals or mask leaks. The good news is that you have the tools to be able to measure these changes as well.

As pressures increase, you can see some things happening more. Three come to mind: a) air swallowing; b) mask leaks; and c) centrals. The good news: many patients have none of these things happening. On the good side, most other events (like obstructives) tend to go down with more pressure. Final bit of context: the machine does not always know when you are asleep or awake. So we tend to disregard any events that show up if they happened while you were awake.

So, what is important is getting some data (objective from Oscar and subjective from you) as you change the settings -- how is the current setting working before you up it a bit. Personally, I would change my max settings slowly -- go up by 1 or 2 and try that for a few days. The machine will only go as high as needed (or the max, if that is less). It seems likely that you are hitting the max often. Personally, I would increase mins more slowly than the max -- probably .5 to 1 per day. As I do all of this, I would be looking at the detailed data.

Caveats: There might be some reason why your doctor set the max pressure that low -- in your shoes, I would call them and ask. It is always possible they saw lots of centrals when the tried higher pressures or you have some other medical issues they are working around. My guess is these will not turn out to be the case and many here would not call their doc.

I am not a health care professional -- just a cpap user. Using the advice from here (especially from Pugsy but also Pale Rider), I dropped my AHI to consistently below 1. Subjectively, I feel much better when my AHI has been under about 2 -- I feel like crap at 5. I did keep my doctor in the loop (and he was cool with my plan -- once he understood that I was looking at and using data and not making any big jumps in pressures on any given day). How much you choose to involve your doctor is up to you.
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D.H.
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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by D.H. » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:19 pm

If you do raise it higher, keep a sharp eye out for Central events. If they increase, the higher pressure might be to blame.

BTW, I put mine up to 20 (which is as high as it goes). What I found is that in mover two years it never went as high as 17, and very rarely hit 15.

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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Bednbones » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:24 pm

Wow, all great information. I’ll will change both min and max tonight. I’ll go slow on the min as suggested and set the max to 20. I think I’m catching on. I also should have results from my sleepyhead/Oscar since I un-right protected my SD card. I’ll check my Apnea’s and report back.

My sleep doctor is very unavailable. It took 3 months to get from my 1st appt- to my cpap RX. My next appt is in 3 mos. My PA is easier to see but I’m not sure how well versed she is with sleep apnea. It might be a waste of time and money.

And interesting to hear that under 5 is horrible and I should shoot for 1. That gives me great hope!

Thank you every one above!!!

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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Bednbones » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:26 pm

CA3DD004-321E-42E4-9A6F-1F4DCE5AE036.png
CA3DD004-321E-42E4-9A6F-1F4DCE5AE036.png (119.03 KiB) Viewed 2476 times
I set my min and max higher. I woke up at 3 am unable to breathe. My nose was plugged again and I wasn’t trying to breathe thru my mouth. ??? Freaked me out. Turned machine off and on so it would start lower. Worked on unplugging nose and went back to sleep.

I can see where the pressure went up at 3 am and then I had a leak, nose was plugged and everything went hairwire.

Ca 6
OA 15
H. 6

It says 100% mask but I know it was leaking because it was blowing in my eyes. Ugh. Now I’m confused again.

The good news - AHI is lower

The bad news - the episode freaked me out.

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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Pugsy » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:40 am

You may have felt the air blowing in your eyes but either it wasn't a big enough leak to register as large leak or maybe it was the vented air bouncing back into your eyes that you were feeling.

You won't get a large leak flagged or dinged for mask fit until you cross over the threshold into large leak territory which is probably in the neighborhood of 75 L/min or maybe more (it's hard to pin down because it varies with pressure) of total leak (top leak line on the graph).

You can have some excess leak and not get a large leak flag...until you cross the large leak threshold you won't get a flag for excessive leak.

It's unlikely that the new changes caused the congestion...probably a coincidence.

What humidity setting are you using?

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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by zonker » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:44 am

Bednbones wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:26 pm


I set my min and max higher. I woke up at 3 am unable to breathe. My nose was plugged again and I wasn’t trying to breathe thru my mouth. ??? Freaked me out. Turned machine off and on so it would start lower. Worked on unplugging nose and went back to sleep.
have you been using flonase? a squirt before bed time can do the trick.
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Bednbones
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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Bednbones » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:24 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:40 am
You may have felt the air blowing in your eyes but either it wasn't a big enough leak to register as large leak or maybe it was the vented air bouncing back into your eyes that you were feeling.

What humidity setting are you using?
So interesting thought on the not large enough leak. That could be true. It blows off my nose area. The silicone is very thin and once it starts to leak there I have to shut my
my machine down to the lower rate to be able to get it leak free again.

I have turned off the humification - someone mentioned to try that in an earlier post.

I also have had pressure on my left side of my chest in the mornings and a headache.

I’ll keep working on the congestion and see is that helps in any way.

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Bednbones
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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by Bednbones » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:28 pm

zonker wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:44 am

have you been using flonase? a squirt before bed time can do the trick.
[/quote]

No I haven’t purchased it yet. I have been to Costco but I had to purchase $50.00 worth and until I know it works, I didn’t want that much. It wasn’t sold at the next 2 grocery stores I went to - probably too organic of a store to sell Flonase. I’ll go to a drug store today.

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Re: At RX max pressure- go higher?

Post by palerider » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:49 pm

Bednbones wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:24 pm
Pugsy wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:40 am
You may have felt the air blowing in your eyes but either it wasn't a big enough leak to register as large leak or maybe it was the vented air bouncing back into your eyes that you were feeling.

What humidity setting are you using?
So interesting thought on the not large enough leak. That could be true. It blows off my nose area. The silicone is very thin and once it starts to leak there I have to shut my
my machine down to the lower rate to be able to get it leak free again.
I'm not sure if padacheek.com makes a mask liner for the dreamwear, but if they do, I'd suggest trying one, it'll tame those annoying leaks.

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