Cooling the CPAP inside a ventilated mini-refrigerator during hot nights

dpascal · Post by **dpascal** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:21 am

Hi,

I started using a CPAP a few months ago and it literally saved my life.
This is my first summer with a CPAP though and being a penguin type I can't stand heat. Unfortunately the rise in temperature means that the air I'm breathing with my CPAP is unbearably hotter. I went on and using a professional industrial thermometer, conducted the following experiment :

To make sure nothing is wrong with my CPAP and to exclude any possibility that my CPAP overheats the air, I measured the air that the CPAP exhales (mask off) and found to always be an acceptable 0.5 degree (celsius) above ambient temp.
The problems starts when I put the mask on. The interaction between the air I exhale and the air that the CPAP exhales ends up raising the temp of the air that I inhale dramatically.
Here are the results of the measurements I took at night (in celsius degrees) :
1. With no AC turned on, ambient temp is 26c,
As a result the temp inside my face mask (put on) is an unbearable 33c
2. With AC turned on, ambient temp is 23c,
As a result the temp inside my face mask (put on) is 32c
3. When CPAP is put in a mini refrigerator, ambient temp drops to 11c,
As a result the temp inside my face mask drops to a pleasant 27c .

So instead of cooling an entire room and getting a very minute improvement, why not putting the CPAP itself in a mini-refrigerator (of course with a small opening for fresh air to be sucked in) ?
After all, working at 11c is well within the operating temp of any CPAP .
Important note ! This solution would probably not be good for CPAPs with humidifiers

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:30 am

This sounds funny as Hale. But, if it works for you - all the best!

BTW, somebody here puts ice cubes in the humidifier tank.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:12 am

Sleepweaver cloth masks are WAAAY cooler in summer.
I used the Elan for about a year, until I switched to nasal pillows for good.
Pad a Cheek makes mask liners, which can help also.

Dog Slobber · Post by **Dog Slobber** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:46 am

As others suggested, if it works for you great.

A couple things to keep in mind:
While mini-fridges are likely more efficient that cooling the room, they are designed to be sealed. Putting a hole in it, and completely replacing the air in it every few minutes will dramatically reduce it's efficiency, perhaps to the point where the air coming through it is close to ambient or even higher.

It's also worth mentioning that all the heat being removed has to go somewhere. Given the mini-fridge is in your bedroom, expect the ambient temperature in your bedroom to increase.

I don't think you will get the results you're hoping for.

Zomby Woof · Post by **Zomby Woof** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:51 am

I'm thinking that for our 100+ degree days here in Texas,
I could modify a deep freezer for comfortable sleeping.

A hole for the mask supply tubing, adjust the temperature settings a bit,
add bedding and a pillow... WALLAH!

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:00 am

DogSlobber has a point--refrigeration works by transferring heat from one place to another.
Cooling one side heats the opposite side.
If the heat remains in the room, the net effect is zero, plus any heat produced by the device itself.
In winter, house cats like to stretch out by the toe kick on the fridge.
Nice and warm there.

D.H. · Post by **D.H.** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:17 am

Set the ambient temperature on the A/C lower. I like to set 20C or 68F (same thing).

If your preseent system can't cool to that, replace it!

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:46 am

Zomby Woof wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:51 am
I'm thinking that for our 100+ degree days here in Texas,
I could modify a deep freezer for comfortable sleeping.

A hole for the mask supply tubing, adjust the temperature settings a bit,
add bedding and a pillow... WALLAH!

Wait, Been there done that. Went to put a lock hasp on my chest freezer. I was not aware the freon lines are spot welded to the steel skin of the outside and inside walls, the drill knicked one and ruined the freezer, and 250 lb of prime cow.... A costly lesson for sure, one as a mechanic I should have seen, that's why I am so good now, I paid the price..... Jim

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:21 am

dpascal wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:21 am
So instead of cooling an entire room and getting a very minute improvement, why not putting the CPAP itself in a mini-refrigerator (of course with a small opening for fresh air to be sucked in) ?
After all, working at 11c is well within the operating temp of any CPAP .
Important note ! This solution would probably not be good for CPAPs with humidifiers

Using a nasal pillow mask or the bleep non-mask would result in much less on your face, and thus, no heating effect, just the cooling effect of the moving air.

And no having to sacrifice a fridge to the project.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:58 pm

Another suggestion: don't take niacin at bedtime.

Zomby Woof · Post by **Zomby Woof** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:13 pm

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:58 pm
Another suggestion: don't take niacin at bedtime.

He may be addicted to the niacin 'flush'.
For some of us, it's the only thrill left

dpascal · Post by **dpascal** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:38 pm

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:46 am
As others suggested, if it works for you great.

A couple things to keep in mind:
While mini-fridges are likely more efficient that cooling the room, they are designed to be sealed. Putting a hole in it, and completely replacing the air in it every few minutes will dramatically reduce it's efficiency, perhaps to the point where the air coming through it is close to ambient or even higher.

It's also worth mentioning that all the heat being removed has to go somewhere. Given the mini-fridge is in your bedroom, expect the ambient temperature in your bedroom to increase.

I don't think you will get the results you're hoping for.

I plan to drill a hole in which I will put a sealed pipe directly into the CPAP inlet. No incoming air will heat the refrigerator.
As for "heating the room", the heat produced by a tiny 10L refrigerator is negligible. Cooling the air I breath by 5 degrees is way more significant than the side effect of adding 0.1 degrees of heat to the room ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/220V-12V-10L-P ... SwX51c1nnT

Wulfman... · Post by **Wulfman...** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:53 pm

dpascal wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:21 am
Hi,

I started using a CPAP a few months ago and it literally saved my life.
This is my first summer with a CPAP though and being a penguin type I can't stand heat. Unfortunately the rise in temperature means that the air I'm breathing with my CPAP is unbearably hotter. I went on and using a professional industrial thermometer, conducted the following experiment :

To make sure nothing is wrong with my CPAP and to exclude any possibility that my CPAP overheats the air, I measured the air that the CPAP exhales (mask off) and found to always be an acceptable 0.5 degree (celsius) above ambient temp.
The problems starts when I put the mask on. The interaction between the air I exhale and the air that the CPAP exhales ends up raising the temp of the air that I inhale dramatically.
Here are the results of the measurements I took at night (in celsius degrees) :
1. With no AC turned on, ambient temp is 26c,
As a result the temp inside my face mask (put on) is an unbearable 33c
2. With AC turned on, ambient temp is 23c,
As a result the temp inside my face mask (put on) is 32c
3. When CPAP is put in a mini refrigerator, ambient temp drops to 11c,
As a result the temp inside my face mask drops to a pleasant 27c .

So instead of cooling an entire room and getting a very minute improvement, why not putting the CPAP itself in a mini-refrigerator (of course with a small opening for fresh air to be sucked in) ?
After all, working at 11c is well within the operating temp of any CPAP .
Important note ! This solution would probably not be good for CPAPs with humidifiers

I can't see in your posts that you've completely turned off the heat settings and heating circuits to the Heated Humidifier.
Turn ALL of the HH settings to OFF.

On a similar note, you haven't even told us what specific make/model of machine you're using.
Please fill out your equipment profile.

I've always used "passover" humidification, year round because I found out immediately that I didn't like the heated humidity either.
But, putting cold water or even crushed ice in the HH tank before starting therapy at night will work wonders.....along with having the heat setting turned off.

Den

.

D.H. · Post by **D.H.** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:44 pm

As pointed out, the heated humidifier will raise the temperature of the air in the hose. If you don't need the moisture, then that might help. You can still put water in the tank and you will get some moisture.

If you need the heated humidifier, then the refrigerator will be undone by the humidifier. Ditto for the idea of putting ice cubes in the tank.

I still say set the room temp to 68F/20C. It should be a little lower when using CPAP. This will prevent sweating around the mask.

Janknitz · Post by **Janknitz** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:56 pm

A friend of mine once gave me some sage advice: "Don't use a Howitzer when a handgun will do". In other words, seems to me you are WAY overthinking this.

Turn your humidifier off, using only "passover humidification" (as an aside I started using CPAP around the Jewish holiday of Passover and I thought everybody had some special way of running it on Passover to comply with Jewish law

) Add ice cubes (I recommend you make ice cubes out of distilled water to avoid mineral deposits in your water chamber). The air should be plenty cool that way.

The refrigerator idea sounds fraught with potential unforeseen issues.

You don't say what make and model of CPAP you are using. The air in my PR S1 auto was always b-r-r-r-r cold, even on hot nights, except when I turned the humidifier all the way up with extra heat (secret setting). Then the heating element died, and it was always cold.

I have humidification all the way down on my current ResMed, and it's never as cold as the PRS1 was. So you might want to consider a different machine.

Cooling the CPAP inside a ventilated mini-refrigerator during hot nights

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