Respironics Dreamstation on a Battery

Thanantos · Post by **Thanantos** » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:00 am

Hey all, I am taking a motorcycle trip to the Sturgis motorcycle rally this year where I will be camping. This led me to exploring options for how to power my CPAP, and I found CapnLoki's awesome post here about power consumption.

I ended up purchasing a 12v plug and a 222wh Suaoki lithium ion battery pack to power my CPAP for the trip. The battery came with a cigarette lighter 12v adapter, and it is really small for the capacity it provides. It's about half the size of a lead acid battery with the same capacity. I linked to Amazon because they have the most reviews, but I ended up actually purchasing one from Wally World's website because it was on sale for $130.

You can plug a 110 volt plug into the battery, but it's much more efficient to use the native 12 volts instead of converting it twice.

I used it last night with the humidifier removed, but I didn't change any other settings. I also do not have a heated tube. The battery pack has 5 lights to indicate the charge level, and when I woke up 4 of them were still lit. I couldn't be happier. I now have a solution to my camping problem, and a backup battery should the power go out.

Below is my DreamMapper page showing my usage last night:

bcemail · Post by **bcemail** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:44 am

Thanks, this was the type of info I came here for! Trying to get ready for camping this summer. Is there a reason that you use a car charger style plug? I see people mention this in reviews, but I can't figure out why not just plug it in with the normal plug? I know pretty much nothing about electricity! Trying to get through one night of camping, plus having some other smaller devices charge.

Dog Slobber · Post by **Dog Slobber** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:11 am

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:44 am
Is there a reason that you use a car charger style plug? I see people mention this in reviews, but I can't figure out why not just plug it in with the normal plug?

CPAPs are Direct Current (DC) devices.

Wall outlet plugs are Alternating Current (AC). When you have an AC plug on a a battery source, you actually have another device being used. An inverter to convert from the battery (DC) to AC. The CPAP power supply then converts the AC source back to DC for the CPAP. Every time you convert you lose efficiency.

When you plug a CPAP into a car charger plug the DC CPAP is drawing from a DC source. No conversion from AC to DC, or DC to AC is required therefore much more efficient.

I see others report that using a CPAP through an inverter can result in a loss as high as 40%.

bcemail · Post by **bcemail** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:29 am

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:11 am

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:44 am
Is there a reason that you use a car charger style plug? I see people mention this in reviews, but I can't figure out why not just plug it in with the normal plug?
CPAPs are Direct Current (DC) devices.

Wall outlet plugs are Alternating Current (AC). When you have an AC plug on a a battery source, you actually have another device being used. An inverter to convert from the battery (DC) to AC. The CPAP power supply then converts the AC source back to DC for the CPAP. Every time you convert you lose efficiency.

When you plug a CPAP into a car charger plug the DC CPAP is drawing from a DC source. No conversion from AC to DC, or DC to AC is required therefore much more efficient.

I see others report that using a CPAP through an inverter can result in a loss as high as 40%.

Gotcha, thanks!! I see the pack mentioned doesn't have a cigarette type connector, so I'm guessing I would need something to run from the smaller port on the pack to my machine? Do I still need the power brick in between the pack and the machine, or is that just for converting AC to DC?
Thanks again!

Dog Slobber · Post by **Dog Slobber** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:54 am

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:29 am

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:11 am

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:44 am
Is there a reason that you use a car charger style plug? I see people mention this in reviews, but I can't figure out why not just plug it in with the normal plug?
CPAPs are Direct Current (DC) devices.

Wall outlet plugs are Alternating Current (AC). When you have an AC plug on a a battery source, you actually have another device being used. An inverter to convert from the battery (DC) to AC. The CPAP power supply then converts the AC source back to DC for the CPAP. Every time you convert you lose efficiency.

When you plug a CPAP into a car charger plug the DC CPAP is drawing from a DC source. No conversion from AC to DC, or DC to AC is required therefore much more efficient.

I see others report that using a CPAP through an inverter can result in a loss as high as 40%.
Gotcha, thanks!! I see the pack mentioned doesn't have a cigarette type connector, so I'm guessing I would need something to run from the smaller port on the pack to my machine? Do I still need the power brick in between the pack and the machine, or is that just for converting AC to DC?
Thanks again!

The specs list 2 12-volt DC outlets and 1 Cigarette adapter cable.

VERSATILE & PORTABLE POWER SOURCE: comes with 2*100V/110V AC outlets (200W Pure Sine Power Inverter), 2*DC outlets (an extra cigarette socket cable), 2*USB ports, 5 LED lights indicator. It can charge USB/5V, DC/12V and AC appliance anywhere

I have no idea what you need, you haven't shared your CPAP device.

I know for my Resmed Airsense 10 (it uses 24-v), so I need the ResMed DC-DC converter.

https://www.cpap.com/en/ca/productpage/ ... 0-machines

bcemail · Post by **bcemail** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:58 am

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:54 am

The specs list 2 12-volt DC outlets and 1 Cigarette adapter cable.

VERSATILE & PORTABLE POWER SOURCE: comes with 2*100V/110V AC outlets (200W Pure Sine Power Inverter), 2*DC outlets (an extra cigarette socket cable), 2*USB ports, 5 LED lights indicator. It can charge USB/5V, DC/12V and AC appliance anywhere
I have no idea what you need, you haven't shared your CPAP device.

I know for my Resmed Airsense 10 (it uses 24-v), so I need the ResMed DC-DC converter.

https://www.cpap.com/en/ca/productpage/ ... 0-machines

I see, so it comes with a socket cable (I was thinking a male cigarette cable, but couldn't see a place to plug it in). I have a Dreamstation so I'll pick up the DC cord for that as well. Thanks!

edatlanta · Post by **edatlanta** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:57 am

I am camping this week at Talladega Superspeedway and use my Dreamstation on my RV's battery system. Works great and doesn't even show up as significant usage on my 2 Trojan T-105 golf cart batteries wired in series. Obviously the OP doesn't have this level of battery capacity, but his solution works great too for him.

CapnLoki · Post by **CapnLoki** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:00 am

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:58 am
I see, so it comes with a socket cable (I was thinking a male cigarette cable, but couldn't see a place to plug it in). I have a Dreamstation so I'll pick up the DC cord for that as well. Thanks!

This is a good solution, especially for someone who needs light weight on a motorcycle. It also is a convenient little bundle. The only issue is "bang for the buck" since you can get an AGM sealed battery, plus a charger that has almost twice the power for $50 less. The downside is that it weighs 25 lbs it looks a bit DYI. The load for your dreamstation at pressure 13 I'm guessing is about 7-8 amp-hours, so the lithium pack (18 AH) should cover two nights. By contrast an AGM battery would give you about 30 AH for only $65 and makes a good home backup. (It can even start a car.)

So, either way works. If you're interested in the AGM solution the details are about 10 posts down in this thread:
viewtopic/t114012/Choosing-a-Battery.html

Dreaming1 · Post by **Dreaming1** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:41 am

: 97B7C2D8-AFF3-4023-A1AE-984860A35E56.jpeg (696.26 KiB) Viewed 7251 times

This is the battery I use camping at the lake or if the power drops out in the night. I get three days of use with no humidifier running. Bought Generac generator for bad storms off Craigslist for longer periods of time.

CapnLoki · Post by **CapnLoki** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:56 am

Dreaming1 wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:41 am
This is the battery I use camping at the lake or if the power drops out in the night. I get three days of use with no humidifier running. Bought Generac generator for bad storms off Craigslist for longer periods of time.

This is rated at 155 watt-hours, which is about 13 amp-hours, which should cover a dreamstation at pressure 10 for just 3 nights. Good to see it lives up to it specs.

bcemail · Post by **bcemail** » Wed May 01, 2019 6:17 am

CapnLoki wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:00 am

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:58 am
I see, so it comes with a socket cable (I was thinking a male cigarette cable, but couldn't see a place to plug it in). I have a Dreamstation so I'll pick up the DC cord for that as well. Thanks!
This is a good solution, especially for someone who needs light weight on a motorcycle. It also is a convenient little bundle. The only issue is "bang for the buck" since you can get an AGM sealed battery, plus a charger that has almost twice the power for $50 less. The downside is that it weighs 25 lbs it looks a bit DYI. The load for your dreamstation at pressure 13 I'm guessing is about 7-8 amp-hours, so the lithium pack (18 AH) should cover two nights. By contrast an AGM battery would give you about 30 AH for only $65 and makes a good home backup. (It can even start a car.)

So, either way works. If you're interested in the AGM solution the details are about 10 posts down in this thread:
viewtopic/t114012/Choosing-a-Battery.html

Thanks for all the great info! I'm weighing (sorry) the choices now. From your setup post, I didn't see anything to connect the cigarette lighter or splitter to the battery. They both have a plug end, but the battery just has terminals (right?). Is there a specific part I use to go from terminals to that style plug?

CapnLoki · Post by **CapnLoki** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:10 pm

bcemail wrote: ↑
Wed May 01, 2019 6:17 am

CapnLoki wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:00 am

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:58 am
I see, so it comes with a socket cable (I was thinking a male cigarette cable, but couldn't see a place to plug it in). I have a Dreamstation so I'll pick up the DC cord for that as well. Thanks!
This is a good solution, especially for someone who needs light weight on a motorcycle. It also is a convenient little bundle. The only issue is "bang for the buck" since you can get an AGM sealed battery, plus a charger that has almost twice the power for $50 less. The downside is that it weighs 25 lbs it looks a bit DYI. The load for your dreamstation at pressure 13 I'm guessing is about 7-8 amp-hours, so the lithium pack (18 AH) should cover two nights. By contrast an AGM battery would give you about 30 AH for only $65 and makes a good home backup. (It can even start a car.)

So, either way works. If you're interested in the AGM solution the details are about 10 posts down in this thread:
viewtopic/t114012/Choosing-a-Battery.html
Thanks for all the great info! I'm weighing (sorry) the choices now. From your setup post, I didn't see anything to connect the cigarette lighter or splitter to the battery. They both have a plug end, but the battery just has terminals (right?). Is there a specific part I use to go from terminals to that style plug?

Batteries come with several post styles, but the 35 AH usually have an eye, about 5/16 inch so you can bolt on an eye terminal. The BatteryTender charger comes with an eyelet cable - the other end of which is an "SAE quick connect." The BatteryTender charger itself has the matching quick connector. Not included is a "SAE to Socket" adapter but that can be had for under $10. Also a 5 way splitter (one SEA to 5 SAE connectors) allows you to have 5 devices connected to the battery, say one or two cpaps, a usb charger, and a BatteryTender. Another point: you can get extra eyelet to SAE cables and put them on others batteries so you can have options for several sizes.

One quirk of the SAE connecter is that it is symmetrical so you might think you can put it on backwards. As long as you put the color coded eyelets to the right post (red to pos, black to neg) it all should work. If you need to do something tricky, like charging off of a car system, ask me.

bcemail · Post by **bcemail** » Thu May 02, 2019 2:01 pm

CapnLoki wrote: ↑
Wed May 01, 2019 1:10 pm

Batteries come with several post styles, but the 35 AH usually have an eye, about 5/16 inch so you can bolt on an eye terminal. The BatteryTender charger comes with an eyelet cable - the other end of which is an "SAE quick connect." The BatteryTender charger itself has the matching quick connector. Not included is a "SAE to Socket" adapter but that can be had for under $10. Also a 5 way splitter (one SEA to 5 SAE connectors) allows you to have 5 devices connected to the battery, say one or two cpaps, a usb charger, and a BatteryTender. Another point: you can get extra eyelet to SAE cables and put them on others batteries so you can have options for several sizes.

One quirk of the SAE connecter is that it is symmetrical so you might think you can put it on backwards. As long as you put the color coded eyelets to the right post (red to pos, black to neg) it all should work. If you need to do something tricky, like charging off of a car system, ask me.

Gotcha. I was planning on using a charger I have for my mower battery, so I would just need to pick up the connector separately.

Also, when you say "The load for your dreamstation at pressure 13 I'm guessing is about 7-8 amp-hours" you mean for a night, not per hour right? I noticed some of the lithium power packs will list something like "155 Wh/42000mAh". Is this saying they have 42 Amp hours? This seems high from all I've read, but I don't understand what I'm missing here. All the conversions and units are getting me confused!

Thanks again

CapnLoki · Post by **CapnLoki** » Thu May 02, 2019 5:04 pm

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu May 02, 2019 2:01 pm
Gotcha. I was planning on using a charger I have for my mower battery, so I would just need to pick up the connector separately.

Also, when you say "The load for your dreamstation at pressure 13 I'm guessing is about 7-8 amp-hours" you mean for a night, not per hour right? I noticed some of the lithium power packs will list something like "155 Wh/42000mAh". Is this saying they have 42 Amp hours? This seems high from all I've read, but I don't understand what I'm missing here. All the conversions and units are getting me confused!

Thanks again

You should be able to get the ring to SAE cable for about $5. The one from BatteryTender has a fuse in it - its prudent to have a fuse close to the battery to protect all the wiring.

Yes, the load is 7-8 AH for an 8 hour night. It might be a tad less; mine is 4 AH at pressure 10. I tend to be ultra conservation with my guestimates.

In the "old days" Amp-Hours were always implied to be measured at 12V; Lithium packs confused this because they measure at the lithium cell voltage of 3.7. After a few years of total confusion, the standards folks insisted they publish the "watt-hour" capacity which is invariant with respect to voltage. You take the watt-hours of a pack and divide by the voltage to get the amp-hours. The is oversimplified of course, because it doesn't take into account the conversion losses and various round offs and the differing properties of lead-acid and lithium. If you have a 155 watt-hour pack, it can deliver 42 amp-hours at 3.7 volts, or about 13 amp-hours at 12V. Figure it all out before you buy!

One more thing - many of these packs have an inverter built in. Very handy for small applications, but its probably only 60% efficient so that 155 watt-hour pack would only give about 8 amp-hours eventually delivered to the cpap. Since the dreamstation is happy to take 12V directly you should always use the 12v power cord that goes with it. Many of these packs use a standard plug (5.2mm?) for 12V out so you can get a cigarette socket adapter that plugs right in.

bcemail · Post by **bcemail** » Fri May 03, 2019 9:37 am

CapnLoki wrote: ↑
Thu May 02, 2019 5:04 pm

bcemail wrote: ↑
Thu May 02, 2019 2:01 pm
Gotcha. I was planning on using a charger I have for my mower battery, so I would just need to pick up the connector separately.

Also, when you say "The load for your dreamstation at pressure 13 I'm guessing is about 7-8 amp-hours" you mean for a night, not per hour right? I noticed some of the lithium power packs will list something like "155 Wh/42000mAh". Is this saying they have 42 Amp hours? This seems high from all I've read, but I don't understand what I'm missing here. All the conversions and units are getting me confused!

Thanks again
You should be able to get the ring to SAE cable for about $5. The one from BatteryTender has a fuse in it - its prudent to have a fuse close to the battery to protect all the wiring.

Yes, the load is 7-8 AH for an 8 hour night. It might be a tad less; mine is 4 AH at pressure 10. I tend to be ultra conservation with my guestimates.

In the "old days" Amp-Hours were always implied to be measured at 12V; Lithium packs confused this because they measure at the lithium cell voltage of 3.7. After a few years of total confusion, the standards folks insisted they publish the "watt-hour" capacity which is invariant with respect to voltage. You take the watt-hours of a pack and divide by the voltage to get the amp-hours. The is oversimplified of course, because it doesn't take into account the conversion losses and various round offs and the differing properties of lead-acid and lithium. If you have a 155 watt-hour pack, it can deliver 42 amp-hours at 3.7 volts, or about 13 amp-hours at 12V. Figure it all out before you buy!

One more thing - many of these packs have an inverter built in. Very handy for small applications, but its probably only 60% efficient so that 155 watt-hour pack would only give about 8 amp-hours eventually delivered to the cpap. Since the dreamstation is happy to take 12V directly you should always use the 12v power cord that goes with it. Many of these packs use a standard plug (5.2mm?) for 12V out so you can get a cigarette socket adapter that plugs right in.

Aha, now it's beginning to make sense! I've already ordered the DC cable for my machine, so that should be on the way. Might also get a dual cigarette splitter to charge my daughter's device via USB/cigarette plug as well, as I saw some reviews mention that using the USB charger on a lithium pack automatically uses inverter power, which I clearly want to avoid.

Thanks again for all the great info here!

Machine	Mask	Humidifier

Additional Comments: Headgear with arms just added.

Machine	Mask	Humidifier

Additional Comments: Love my cpap life!

Respironics Dreamstation on a Battery

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