Tyrone747's therapy

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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katestyles
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by katestyles » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:42 am

jwoceanside wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:21 am
I'm with you Tyrone. It's possible. I've been on CPAP for 97 days. My numbers are great. My AHI runs between 0 and 2

Is it possible CPAP just doesn't work with all. Most rely on this post, but a certain number of posters tells us it's not working for them. I appreciate the believers attempt to help the non-believers. But!

I can appreciate pro and con numbers, but it doesn't matter if I feel crappy all day. I've seen many different medical specialists and it always returns to Sleep Apnea. Like with politics and sports numbers can be misleading

I no longer need to hear "it takes time". I've been faithful for 97 days. I've tried to follow the experience of vets on this board. I no longer need to post my numbers. I know how I feel. That's what counts.
Some people without Sleep Apnea have crappy sleep. Some people with untreated Sleep Apnea have crappy sleep. Some people with treated Sleep Apnea have crappy sleep.

I have been faithful to my diet for 97 days and I have only lost 10 pounds. I feel hungry - I should have lost more weight than this. I've tried to follow the experience of vets on the diet board, but I know how I feel. That's what counts.

Or maybe 97 days is just the start. I have to keep on working on the habits of the last 40 years until they are no longer habits. I have to train my body to the new reality of the correct calorie intake.

97 days is nothing.

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zonker
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by zonker » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:28 am

katestyles wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:42 am
jwoceanside wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:21 am
I'm with you Tyrone. It's possible. I've been on CPAP for 97 days. My numbers are great. My AHI runs between 0 and 2

Is it possible CPAP just doesn't work with all. Most rely on this post, but a certain number of posters tells us it's not working for them. I appreciate the believers attempt to help the non-believers. But!

I can appreciate pro and con numbers, but it doesn't matter if I feel crappy all day. I've seen many different medical specialists and it always returns to Sleep Apnea. Like with politics and sports numbers can be misleading

I no longer need to hear "it takes time". I've been faithful for 97 days. I've tried to follow the experience of vets on this board. I no longer need to post my numbers. I know how I feel. That's what counts.
Some people without Sleep Apnea have crappy sleep. Some people with untreated Sleep Apnea have crappy sleep. Some people with treated Sleep Apnea have crappy sleep.

I have been faithful to my diet for 97 days and I have only lost 10 pounds. I feel hungry - I should have lost more weight than this. I've tried to follow the experience of vets on the diet board, but I know how I feel. That's what counts.

Or maybe 97 days is just the start. I have to keep on working on the habits of the last 40 years until they are no longer habits. I have to train my body to the new reality of the correct calorie intake.

97 days is nothing.
+1
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
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palerider
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:00 pm

katestyles wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:36 am
If you don't want to put your max at 20, put it up 1 at a time. set it to 11, and see if it still maxes out.
It's better to let the machine do what the machine needs to do.

The minimum needs to be changed so that there are fewer breathing events that cause the pressure to jump up.

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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by tyrone747 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:14 pm

Ok. Tonight I'll try setting 8-10 with EPR 2 Ramp only.

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palerider
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:31 pm

tyrone747 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:14 pm
Ok. Tonight I'll try setting 8-10 with EPR 2 Ramp only.
Make it 8-12

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SleepySwiss
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by SleepySwiss » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:47 pm

palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:31 pm
tyrone747 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:14 pm
Ok. Tonight I'll try setting 8-10 with EPR 2 Ramp only.
Make it 8-12
I'd opt for 8-20, following the idea of letting the machine do what the machine is made to do.
And this is the long haul. You will not stay healthy if you don't treat your apnea, but AHI is not the only thing that counts. Your AHI is pretty low and constantly so, which makes me recommend that you work on other things to improve your sleep, as suggested sleep hygiene, ie not computers (blue lights!) in your bedroom.

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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:50 pm

SleepySwiss wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:47 pm
palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:31 pm
tyrone747 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:14 pm
Ok. Tonight I'll try setting 8-10 with EPR 2 Ramp only.
Make it 8-12
I'd opt for 8-20,
Well, I would too, but didn't want to scare 'em too bad with the possibility of a little pressure.

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tyrone747
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by tyrone747 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:43 pm

Sorry I meant 8-20. I'll see how it goes.

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katestyles
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by katestyles » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:48 pm

tyrone747 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:43 pm
Sorry I meant 8-20. I'll see how it goes.
Good for you!

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tyrone747
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by tyrone747 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 am

Here is my data from last night. As you can see I had a nap after lunch, which was lovely, so I was excited to see how I slept last night. Unfortunately I don't feel very rested at all today. I also had a case of aerophagia this morning for the first time. I was belching, my stomach felt bloated, and full of air which was mildly painful. I tried to go back to sleep after realizing how tired I still was this morning but I couldn't fall asleep so after a couple tries I gave up. I'm wondering if I should try to power through at the new higher 8-20 pressure or if this is a mistake since I felt better on the constant 5 inH20 that I begin at. I think I will give it some more time for now unless you guys think otherwise.
Image

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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by Pugsy » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:00 am

Can you omit the mask pressure graph and replace it with the Flow Limitation graph.
We don't really need 2 pressure graphs and the FL graph might be useful.

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:06 am

If my AHI were under 1.0 and higher pressures made me uncomfortable, I would go back to lower pressures and work on ALL aspects of sleep hygiene.
Jay Aitchsee wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:18 am
I think you need to pay attention to Sleep Hygiene. Strive for consistent bed and rise times. Go to bed at a time that will give you the appropriate number of hours before rising.

In your first example, you went to bed around 8 PM, woke up for a couple of hours about 1:30 (5.5hrs), went back to sleep around 3AM and slept until around 7AM (4hrs) essentially two sleep periods totaling around 10 hrs. Neither period sufficient for restorative sleep and together totaling too much time asleep and in bed. I suspect this is what caused your lousy feeling the next day.

Your second example depicts a more desirable pattern, going to sleep around 11:30 and waking around 6AM for about 6.5 hours sleep. Probably, you could use a little more sleep, but 6.5 hours, IMO, are better than 10 and more likely to leave you feeling less groggy and more rested the following day (which it apparently did).

Also have a look at the stages of sleep and why it is important to complete all and wake from the appropriate one.
But hey, that's just me.

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tyrone747
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by tyrone747 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:23 am

Pugsy wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:00 am
Can you omit the mask pressure graph and replace it with the Flow Limitation graph.
We don't really need 2 pressure graphs and the FL graph might be useful.
Yes, of course.
Image

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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by Pugsy » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:43 am

As I suspected...I think we can clearly see what is driving the pressure up.

There comes a point in time where we have to sometimes make compromises. The machine wants to go up but between using the higher minimum and letting the machine go up....you create the aerophagia monster situation.

Was it just the 8 cm minimum all night that was the biggest factor of the fact that it went up to nearly 12 for part of the night????

Couple of experiments you could try....lower the minimum and let the machine go where it thinks it needs to go...or keep the 8 cm minimum and limit the max to 10 or 11 and see if either one of those experiments keeps the aerophagia monster away.

Great numbers don't mean squat if we still feel like crap...and especially so if those great numbers include a visit from the aerophagia monster. Just trading one problem for another and sometimes a worse problem.

Me....I would back up that minimum because I don't know that you actually need the 8 cm minimum to keep the airway open and prevent the collapses that result in the flags. Trying to smooth out the pressure graph created a new problem. It happens sometimes.
We don't know if smoothing out the pressure graph would let you feel those good numbers you were getting but we do know that trying to created a problem.

If it were me I would back up so that I didn't have the aerophagia issues because we know you are going to feel like crap if you have those and instead work on maybe trying to figure out why you still don't feel the good numbers. Sometimes the reason we don't feel the good numbers and still feel like crap is because the reason we feel like crap isn't related to airway issues.
Are those FLs a factor? It's a maybe but to kill those FLs you need more pressure (assuming they aren't related to nasal congestion which is a separate non airway issue) and more pressure invites the aerophagia monster to set up shop.

It's very possible that you simply need some time using cpap before you start feeling the improvements you expected or hoped for.
It's not a light switch kind of thing for most people despite reading about some people having the overnight miracle. I know I didn't have the overnight miracle except my nocturia went away pretty fast once I got my pressures optimized. Energy levels and need to nap things....they were much, much slower for me to see improvements despite some really nice low numbers.
It's a battle I still wage but I figured out why I don't always sleep so good and thus feel the nice low numbers I have always obtained.
I have something else messing with my sleep quality.

If you haven't had labs done in a while.....get them done and include vitamin D level checking as well as testosterone checking...low values in those will affect how we feel. Thyroid also...but that is usually part of routine labs...vitamin levels and hormone levels are not usually part of routine labs.

It may be that you just need to give it time but it doesn't mean that you don't do any detective work trying to eliminate other potential culprits while giving it time. Use the time to rule out or in other potential culprits for not feeling those nice low numbers.
Getting the low numbers is the easy part....feeling them is a whole different story.

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tyrone747
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Re: How is possible to have a great night on paper and still feel like garbage?

Post by tyrone747 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:20 am

Thanks very much Pugsy for your response. It all makes sense. So tonight I'm going to try 6-20 and see if the aerophagia issue comes back.