CPAP is a patch, not a cure...

Goofproof wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:19 pm

On that idea, so is Insulin to a diabetic, and a a heart valve to a heart repair. The point is to keep going forward, nothing is forever. Many things have no permanent solution, we use what is needed to get by. Jim

Jim, if we abuse our bodies enough, we need patches to go on living. On the other hand if we allow the body to heal, sometimes the patches are no longer needed. Dr. Gominak is outlining a path that allows the body to sleep more efficiently which promotes healing.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:41 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:46 pm

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:22 pm

I found this neurologists perspective and experience with sleep disorders very interesting. If this is a cure, this gives some insight as to what it would look like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8FTWCb010

HC, if that video is like a lot of other things you are attracted to, it's quackery.

Well, that video started out with poor credibility:

Within the last ten years. men came out of their bypass surgeries, the nurse called the pulmonologist, and the cpap mask was born".

Uh... .riiiight.

Sleep apnea is like poor eyesight, it's a *condition*, and there is a .... patch for it, just like eyeglasses are a "patch", I'm going to continue using my 'patches', both eyeglasses and cpap.

palerider, Yes, I caught that too. Keep in mind that Dr. Gominak is a neurologist...

By the way did you happen to look into her other claims like the 4 bacteria in the gut, the levels of Vitamin D, the amount of pantothenic acid in multi vitamins, and so on... ?

Uff Da wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:54 pm

Interesting video. It doesn't really apply much to those who need CPAP machines for sleep apnea, but it does focus on some other solutions for various different sleep problems, as well as some problems we don't normally think of a sleep related problems but for which there might be a sleep component. Interesting thought. She might be onto something on some of them.

Uff Da, One thing that caught my attention was her comments that in her practice people were using CPAP with good results as far as keeping their airway open but still feeling like crap the next morning. CPAP appears to work for awhile, and then becomes less effective toward general health. Her focus seems to be the quality and quantity of REM sleep. Last I checked everyone can benefit from quality REM sleep, including those using CPAP.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:12 pm

Just let me read an article.
Damn video--yakity yak-- give me a chance to skim past the crap and get to the point.
I'm in a public place--just had to shut it DOWN!

chunkyfrog, I agree Dr. Gominak seems to go into a lot of detail and talk a lot in her presentations and interviews. I have watched about 6 hours of her videos and finally searched for the core material.

Just for you...

Here is her paper on Vitamin D which is part 1 of her presentation.

https://www.gwern.net/docs/zeo/2012-gominak.pdf

Here is her paper on Vitamin B which is part 2 of her presentation.

https://drgominak.com/wp-content/upload ... rticle.pdf

And as a follow up here is a discussion on the gut bacteria and vitamin B.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4403557/

Highlander wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:58 pm

She is recommending vitamin D and B complex supplements essentially.

Highlander, while that is basically correct, it is missing the timing portion. Everyone should have enough D to be within the therapeutic range. B vitamins are given only when needed. The goal is to promote REM sleep and wake up totally refreshed. The more damage to your body, the more vitamin B is needed. However, too much will have you waking up in pain, so you have to monitor to achieve the best results.

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:50 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:41 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:46 pm

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:22 pm

I found this neurologists perspective and experience with sleep disorders very interesting. If this is a cure, this gives some insight as to what it would look like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8FTWCb010

HC, if that video is like a lot of other things you are attracted to, it's quackery.

Well, that video started out with poor credibility:

Within the last ten years. men came out of their bypass surgeries, the nurse called the pulmonologist, and the cpap mask was born".

Uh... .riiiight.

Sleep apnea is like poor eyesight, it's a *condition*, and there is a .... patch for it, just like eyeglasses are a "patch", I'm going to continue using my 'patches', both eyeglasses and cpap.

palerider, Yes, I caught that too. Keep in mind that Dr. Gominak is a neurologist...

By the way did you happen to look into her other claims like the 4 bacteria in the gut, the levels of Vitamin D, the amount of pantothenic acid in multi vitamins, and so on... ?

No, I didn't have over an hour to listen to rambling. Like Chunky, give me something concise I can read.

Wow Hosecrusher!

*Y U* are such a responsible thread starter! That is very admirable.

It's nice to see when people are genuinely interested in sharing and exploring and not just trying to post anything they found on the internet and maybe didn't even read themselves.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:56 am

Most treatments/therapies for most conditions are only good for when you use them. Call them patches and not cures if you want to but it doesn't change things.

Insulin for diabetes...doesn't cure or permanently fix the problem...it just helps people manage it. Who cares if it is called a patch or whatever.

Same thing for eye glasses...or treating heart conditions or high blood pressure...it is treatment for the condition and without the treatment the condition returns.
Sometimes there is a permanent "fix" out there....like the laser surgery on the eyes can eliminate the need for eye glasses.
Sometimes no permanent fix is available.
CPAP is a treatment/therapy...it has never been offered as a permanent fix. No one has ever said "use cpap for so and so length of time and you can ditch it later". Instead they are told use it until a better therapy is found or something changes and you don't have your airway closing up all the time when you sleep.

Using the term "patch" instead of "treatment/therapy" is just splitting useless hairs IMHO.

The good doctor in the above video...seems to be promoting vitamins and minerals as a permanent fix so people can ditch cpap and sort of using terms that tend to put cpap use in a poor light. Patch does sound much less meaningful than therapy.
People can say anything to promote their agenda. Doesn't make it the right thing though. Look hard enough and you can find all sorts of stuff on the internet to "confirm" some odd ball opinion. Doesn't make it right though.

Pugsy, I think you missed Dr. Gominak's intent. I think she is trying to find a way to eliminate sleep disorders. Her approach uses sleep studies, CPAP, drugs, vitamins, diet, and so on. This combination she is talking about seems to work the best, but only when strictly followed. Too much D and you don't get restful REM sleep. Too little D results are similar. Too much B the same and too little B the same. There seems to be a window that allows the body to enter into REM and enjoy the healing benefits of REM sleep.

palerider wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:10 pm

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:50 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:41 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:46 pm

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:22 pm

I found this neurologists perspective and experience with sleep disorders very interesting. If this is a cure, this gives some insight as to what it would look like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8FTWCb010

HC, if that video is like a lot of other things you are attracted to, it's quackery.

Well, that video started out with poor credibility:

Within the last ten years. men came out of their bypass surgeries, the nurse called the pulmonologist, and the cpap mask was born".

Uh... .riiiight.

Sleep apnea is like poor eyesight, it's a *condition*, and there is a .... patch for it, just like eyeglasses are a "patch", I'm going to continue using my 'patches', both eyeglasses and cpap.

palerider, Yes, I caught that too. Keep in mind that Dr. Gominak is a neurologist...

By the way did you happen to look into her other claims like the 4 bacteria in the gut, the levels of Vitamin D, the amount of pantothenic acid in multi vitamins, and so on... ?

No, I didn't have over an hour to listen to rambling. Like Chunky, give me something concise I can read.

palerider, refer to my reply to chunkyfrog.

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:16 pm

Pugsy, I think you missed Dr. Gominak's intent.

Well.....I didn't think that I did but whatever. I didn't really try to analyze her thoughts at all.
Doesn't change what I said one bit though.
We've been down this road with you before and fixing the cause thing. I have no desire to go rehash it again with you..
Carry on.

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:47 pm

Goofproof wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:19 pm

On that idea, so is Insulin to a diabetic, and a a heart valve to a heart repair. The point is to keep going forward, nothing is forever. Many things have no permanent solution, we use what is needed to get by. Jim

Jim, if we abuse our bodies enough, we need patches to go on living. On the other hand if we allow the body to heal, sometimes the patches are no longer needed. Dr. Gominak is outlining a path that allows the body to sleep more efficiently which promotes healing.

I have yet never seen anyone get out of life alive, even with patches, but we can prolong our suffering with the help of the medical profession. Jim

All of this raving about vitamins is not a new thing.
Sadly, it quite often leads into promotion for just another "patent medicine".
Kind of reminds me of "humours" and bleeding from centuries past.
Why can't we just line up all the quacks and test some weapons on them?

I don't know h much faith to put into any part of this thread.

However, CPAP is not a cure. If you stop using it the problem returns!

D.H. wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:13 pm

I don't know h much faith to put into any part of this thread.

However, CPAP is not a cure. If you stop using it the problem returns!

D.H. Let me see if I can summarize...

First we start with an evaluation question. When you wake up in the morning, are you fully refreshed and pain free?

If the answer is YES, jump out of bed and enjoy your day.

If the answer is NO, further checking is needed.

The next step is how much time did you spend in REM sleep? Unfortunately this requires a sleep study and the average person isn't going to spend the cost of a sleep study frequently to nail this down. There is a loose correlation between movement while sleeping and the amount of time spent on REM sleep where you are paralyzed with no movement. You can use a Fitbit or similar device to see how much you move during the night and get an approximation of the amount of time spent in REM sleep. Less than 30 minutes in REM, you have issues. The goal is 90+ minutes each night. 120 minutes is in the range of "normal" but if your body has damage it is trying to repair that may jump to something like 180 minutes.

My opinion is that this is the weak link to this. I can't afford to spend a week sleeping in a sleep lab to get a good feel for the amount of REM sleep I have averaged over several night. I also have not been able to find a portable and affordable EEG machine that would allow me to do my own monitoring. I can afford a Fitbit, but I am unsure how to interpret the results.

The next step is to measure your vitamin D levels. That requires a blood test and the target is 60 - 80 ng/ml.

The next step involves B vitamins. Too little and you don't experience healing. Too much and you end up with aches and pains. Diet plays a part in this. For example if you drink a lot of alcohol, you need more B.

When you get all the pieces lined up, you give your body the opportunity to fully utilize REM sleep for repair and restoration.

I am not sure how the body prioritizes repairs, but you will most likely need to continue using CPAP until it addresses the various bulbar nerves. At any rate a follow up sleep study would indicate if you still need CPAP or not.

Many people accept aches and pains in the morning as "normal." I don't believe that. Now if you just played a game of football and got the crap beat out of you, there may still be some pain in the morning. However you should feel better than you did the night before.

My goal is to provide my body every chance possible to repair itself. It appears that REM sleep plays an important part in this.

Corrective surgery for Sleep Apnea has a success rate of about 30% whereas CPAP has about a 40% compliance rate, less exposure for insurance companies, less risk for patients and results that are equivalent to the amount of effort the patient puts in to make it work.