Dreamstation Leaking Water and blew power supply brick.

Hi,

I've just signed up and thought that I would share my recent experience with you all. I was diagnosed just over a year ago and have been supplied with a dreamstation and humidifier by my local hospital.

I recently moved my cpap machine and my bed around, I thought this had caused the problems but it appears this was not the case...so..... here we go....

I woke up to a bang / pop in the night and realised that my Dreamstation was no longer operating. It turned out that the power brick had got wet and blew the 2A fuse in the 13A plug top ( I'm in the UK, we have fuses in the plugs the plug into the power outlets). Half asleep I wiped the thing dry and unable to get back to sleep I replaced the fuse and plugged it back into the outlet. Machine came back on for a second and then the power brick popped again and took the fuse out once more.

Luckily my hospital had a spare unit, so I'm back up and running. However I've noticed that the unit is leaking water quite badly ( I had put this down to the fact that I had been pulling on the hose in my sleep causing the machine to move and spill the water and the chair it sat on was not perfectly level - it was close enough ! ).

So....It would appear that there are small cracks in the water tank, I've done a leak test at ambient pressure and it's damp underneath after a few minutes..... but under pressure (I'm on 15) I guess this could be significant and the machine has a pool of water underneath it.... and that is what has caused the issue with blowing the power brick up. I've noticed a little water under the tank a few times but didn't put this down to a leak, however the machine now generates a puddle !!

I've relocated the power supply, making sure that it is well out of the way of the machine and also got the cable in a U shape, so that water won't run down the cable into the power supply and will at least drip if there are any future problems.

I will ring the hospital soon and see if they have a spare water tank, will probably run it dry for a couple of days in the mean time.

Question... is it OK to use freshly boiled water ?? - I try to let it cool first but sometimes forget ???

The power brick seems well sealed and I had a hell of a job opening it up to do a post mortem, however its not sealed around the power entry and power out cable points in the casing. Any water that gets in sits in a pool inside with no way to get out and ends up corroding and shorting out parts of the circuit board.


### Learning points and potential warnings ###

1) Do not sit the power supply brick in a position where spilt water (such as the table you have your machine on) could drip onto it.

2) If the power brick sits lower than the machine, ensure that water can not run down the cable ( I ran it in a U shape).

3) If Power supply gets wet, ensure it it dry before use, if there is any sign of water coming out of the case or you suspect that any water has got into it then cease use immediately.

4) Inspect Water tank for leaks and small cracks.

5) Be aware of any water that has leaked out of the machine, such as it sitting in a puddle.

6) If it blows a fuse, don't muck about with it !! - The fuse has blown for a very good reason.

Hope this helps, keep safe and happy sleeping,
Thanks, Regards, Colin

ColinD wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:01 pm

Question... is it OK to use freshly boiled water ?? - I try to let it cool first but sometimes forget ???

Quit that. Just use any potable tap water.

The reason for using distilled water is to avoid mineral deposits in the tank that may come from other potable waters. Even if you get mineral deposits, it's not a big deal. Just clean them out with a vinegar solution.

BTW, many people keep a spare tank on hand because they will sometimes crack unexpectedly.

From the U.S., it sounds funny to be getting equipment from a hospital - inefficient and expensive.

ColinD wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:01 pm

Question... is it OK to use freshly boiled water ?? - I try to let it cool first but sometimes forget ???

Why are you using boiled(ing?) water?

If your tap water is safe to drink, just use that.

ColinD wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:01 pm

The power brick seems well sealed and I had a hell of a job opening it up to do a post mortem, however its not sealed around the power entry and power out cable points in the casing. Any water that gets in sits in a pool inside with no way to get out and ends up corroding and shorting out parts of the circuit board.

This is another good reason to put the machine on the floor, (besides preventing rainout).

also, WTH Respironics?

Hi ColinD,

I wouldn't bother trying to explain UK electrics to non-UK people – not without pictures.

And I didn't quite get the bit about freshly-boiled water. I do hope you have not been putting freshly boiling water into the water tank – for two reasons.

One is: you don't need to heat the water that much to get humidity. You get enough humidity from blowing air across the surface of lukewarm water.

And that metal plate thing in the bottom of the humidifier bit is a heater, and that gently warms the water.

You can even put cold water in, and that plate will heat the water enough to permit sufficient humidity.

The second reason for my hoping you are not putting boiling water in the tank is that: I'm pretty sure regular filling up with boiling water seriously affects the plastic which the tank is made of.

In the booklet that comes with the machine when you buy your own it sez: wash in lukewarm water. Meaning anything hotter than lukewarm is bad for the plastic.

The sleep medicine department can issue you with a replacement tank, and you can also buy spare tanks on the internet – or direct from Philips Respironics UK in Chichester.

If there is any remaining damp inside the blower unit, or it's not working right, the best thing is to take the machine back to the sleep medicine department, and ask if they can issue a replacement.

But don't make a habit of it, ok?

To Chicago Granny,

Yes, it is different from the US. The pulmonologist is hired by and works for the hospital. The sleep specialist nurses and physiologists are hired by and work for the hospital. The sleep medicine department is part of the hospital, and is usually located in the hospital grounds or building.

The sleep medicine department does all the diagnosing and all the treating for OSA – and it supplies all the medical equipment for the treatment of OSA. So it is, if you like, its own DME (but only for OSA equipment; other specialist departments are their own DME for their specialism's equipment).

The process is neither unduly expensive nor inefficient. The two main manufacturers compete strenuously to get the bulk order from each of the country's 150 foundation trust hospitals. And when each hospital is buying a few thousand units at a time – and offering exclusivity as well – the manufacturers are willing to offer the hospitals a very good price.

In addition, there is – as I've explained above – no separate DME in between the patient (or patient-plus-insurance-company) and the manufacturer, taking their profit margin.

So, for the moment, the 89 pc of patients in the UK who get treated by the NHS are not faced with (1) bills from a private insurance company, (2) an individual mandate to buy private insurance, (3) co-pays, or (4) deductibles.

Speaking of efficient, I see that Mayor Bill de Blasio is bringing in both a public option and universal health care for New York. I wonder why he's doing that? Do you think because it is, in the long run, cheaper?

rick blaine wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:53 pm

Hi ColinD,

I wouldn't bother trying to explain UK electrics to non-UK people – not without pictures.

Speaking as a non-UK person, I think the UK plug, while being one of the best in the world at finding bare feet in the dark, is brilliant in that it's got a fuse in it, though I'm not sure I'm a big fan of the ring circuit.... though I understand the 'why'.

rick blaine wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:53 pm

And I didn't quite get the bit about freshly-boiled water. I do hope you have not been putting freshly boiling water into the water tank – for two reasons.

One is: you don't need to heat the water to boiling to get humidity. You get enough humidity from blowing air across the surface of lukewarm water.

I'm guessing it's some misguided thing relating to not having distilled water, which isn't necessary in the first place.

Boiling, then cooling, questionable water is commonly advised to travelers
before drinking or using in meal preparation.
It will not hurt in your cpap, as long as you let it cool; but is probably not necessary.
Only water VAPOR goes into your hose--bad stuff stays in the tank.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:10 am

Boiling, then cooling, questionable water is commonly advised to travelers
before drinking or using in meal preparation.
It will not hurt in your cpap, as long as you let it cool; but is probably not necessary.
Only water VAPOR goes into your hose--bad stuff stays in the tank.

Boiling water before cpap will make mineral deposits slightly worse, since you're concentrating the minerals by boiling.

Boiling actually concentrates any minerals in the water and greatly increases the chance of mineral build up in the water chamber.
And the longer you boil it...the worse it gets.
Ever look at the sauce pan you used to cook some hard boiled eggs and forgot and let it boil longer than you meant to....
When I don't have distilled water available I use tap water or plain bottled water.
There is no need to boil the water and if the water is too hot when you put it in the water chamber that could very well be causing the seal failure leaks or even cracks.

Thanks for the advice everyone

Yes, I have put hot water in it from time to time, so this may have helped cause the problem.

I am reasonably sure the instruction sheet that the hospital supplied said to use water that had previously been boiled, so will dig the paperwork out. The tap water here is perfectly safe to drink, so maybe as suggested I could just fill it directly.

Looking at how the tank is sealed when the lid is closed, water shouldn't spill if the machine gets knocked or pulled.

Regards, Colin

rick blaine wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:53 pm

Yes, it is different from the US. The pulmonologist is hired by and works for the hospital. The sleep specialist nurses and physiologists are hired by and work for the hospital. The sleep medicine department is part of the hospital, and is usually located in the hospital grounds or building.

The sleep medicine department does all the diagnosing and all the treating for OSA

There are plenty of hospitals here who do all that. Whether they sell equipment, you would have to ask someone else.

rick blaine wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:53 pm

Speaking of efficient, I see that Mayor Bill de Blasio is bringing in both a public option and universal health care for New York. I wonder why he's doing that? Do you think because it is, in the long run, cheaper?

NYC has had for many years "free" medical care for low-income people and illegal immigrants. It's never worked well. The NYT calls it an $8-billion behemoth.

All de Blasio is trying to do now is make it more efficient and get the publicity to further his political care. And no, it's not going to be cheaper. According to his own office, it will cost an additional $100 million mostly for setting up a call center.

rick blaine wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:53 pm

The process is neither unduly expensive nor inefficient.

"Unduly" is a weasel word that makes me suspicious. "Nor inefficient" is a weasel phrase.

That you qualify the words instead of saying it is inexpensive and efficient is telling.

Come to the States and live a while. You will find out quickly that medical care here leans way toward socialized medicine. All at the expense of the middle class working people and future generations who will have to deal with the debt the system is incurring.

ColinD wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:32 am

I am reasonably sure the instruction sheet that the hospital supplied said to use water that had previously been boiled, so will dig the paperwork out. The tap water here is perfectly safe to drink, so maybe as suggested I could just fill it directly.

Your instruction sheet may very well have said that, but it's still wrong, and you should not boil the water, there's not *reason* to boil the water, and plenty of reasons *not to*.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:09 pm

Your instruction sheet may very well have said that, but it's still wrong, and you should not boil the water, there's not *reason* to boil the water, and plenty of reasons *not to*.

There's plenty of good reasons to boil water, coffee, tea, soup, potatoes, eggs, etc., none of them for CPAP.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:19 am

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:10 am

Boiling, then cooling, questionable water is commonly advised to travelers
before drinking or using in meal preparation.
It will not hurt in your cpap, as long as you let it cool; but is probably not necessary.
Only water VAPOR goes into your hose--bad stuff stays in the tank.

Boiling water before cpap will make mineral deposits slightly worse, since you're concentrating the minerals by boiling.

I DID mention the "bad stuff" . . .

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:29 pm

There's plenty of good reasons to boil water, coffee, tea

Uh, no.

The brewing temperature of the water used for brewing coffee is very important. It should be between 195 F (91 C) and 205 F (96 C). The closer to 205 F (96 C) the better. Boiling water (212 F - 100 C) should never be used, as it will burn the coffee.

Water for white and green teas should generally be between 170 and 185 degrees Fahrenheit. Oolong should be brewed between 180 and 190. And black and herbal teas should be brewed between 208 and 212 degrees.

Funny that the adapter that the adapter I have for the UK, Ireland, and Hong Kong has no fuse and a plastic pin to go into the earthing (a.k.a. grounding) hole. As far as I know, the only difference between the Dreamstations sold in the US and those sold in the UK are the shape of the plug (and the fact that it contains a fuse) at the very end of the cord.