Does the tongue suction method actually work? Mouth leaking..

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of trying to switch over to the P10 from using the Amara View. When using the P10, I usually will not get any leaks out of my mouth during the first 4 hours of sleep. However, the second half of the night is when I start leaking (tongue drop) and it really messes with my sleep quality. I know this has nothing to do about mouth breathing since my nose is not congested, my tongue just simply relaxes and air rushes out of my mouth.

Now, I've heard people training their tongue to stay in place at night. I've been trying to do the same, but it really makes me wonder if it actually is possible at all? How can we unconsciously train our tongue to stay there during REM sleep, where the muscles in our bodies relax?

Any one who has personal experience please chime in... I'm kind of desperate to get away from FFM's since I'm getting alot of residual apneas despite 15+cm pressures. However, I rarely get any apneas with nasal masks at 6cm pressure.

Yes it does work. I did it. I practiced during the day and after some practice, it is now at the roof of my mouth all the time, except when it is otherwise engaged.

As to REM sleep, your body doesn't move which is not the same as relaxing. The term I read is paralysed. But that's a) from memory and b) I am not a specialist on REM sleep.

But give it a try. It really does work. I practiced while on my treadmill. It's the place I practice any memory work because the treadmill is so boring. At first it took all my brain to hold my tongue there. Couldn't do any other memory work at the same time. Next day, i could do both together.

If when you are sleeping and notice your cheeks fill up, pull your tongue back and up.

Hey, thanks a lot for replying. So you also had mouth leaking problems prior to practicing this technique?

Yes, it works with practice. I've been using a nasal mask and just now trying a P10, using APAP for 3 months. At the beginning, I would have lots of mouth leaks and I would wake up with my mouth very dry. That's not happening any more; my mouth stays moist. I haven't completely eliminated mouth leaks, but they are no longer bothering me and don't seem to last as long.

tl424 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:42 pm

Any one who has personal experience please chime in... I'm kind of desperate to get away from FFM's since I'm getting alot of residual apneas despite 15+cm pressures. However, I rarely get any apneas with nasal masks at 6cm pressure.

Mouth leaks have been a big problem for me and a FFM won't resolve it as I am a nose breather. I have been able to control the leaks with pressure up to 9 (my doc had it set to 15!!!)....but above that, it's a big problem for me and wakes me up so often that it just wears me out. I now have my pressures at 6.8 - 9.8. I'm inching the lower pressure up gradually to 7+ to help stave off events. I'm keeping my events below 2 AHI and am feeling more rested without the dumb mouth leaks. I'm hoping that over time, my tongue will get stronger and will keep the "back door" shut!! Good luck!

It has worked for me. Took a while to get it to become second nature. I had used a cervical collar, mouth taped, chin strapped and used dental adhesive with limited effect. The success is in the suction. Placement alone was not enough. I got a bit over zealous early on and hurt the roof of my mouth, but for many years now I've not needed any external aids to prevent losing air out my mouth. A contributor to my success was to sleep on a firm flat pillow. When the chin is lower it encourages gravity to work against you. Good luck.

clenchingtobreathe wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:08 pm

Mouth leaks have been a big problem for me and a FFM won't resolve it as I am a nose breather.

Well now, in practice, a FFM will resolve it, because there won't be a lower pressure in your mouth, and outside your mouth, so there's nowhere for the air to go rushing out.

It works for tons of people, you don't have to be a mouth breather to benefit from a FFM.

tl424 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:41 pm

QHey, thanks a lot for replying. So you also had mouth leaking problems prior to practicing this technique?

I have used XPAP for over a year now and have had the chipmunk cheeks. Now I don't.

Works for me when using a cervical collar type device.

Hi tl424 ~~~

You might want to try adding a little treat to your practice like a tic tac or certs? Or if you have a dry mouth, a therabreath lozenge? Hold / suck that between your tongue and the roof of your mouth and as a bonus be "kissably fresh" for any random occasion that occurs?

Like KTeague, I was overzealous in my training. I never considered "exactly" where my tongue was and thus trained myself to push on my front teeth. This caused me to have to do a stint in braces and now I have to sleep in retainers. The plus side is the retainers are super comfortable and make keeping my tongue in place and my mouth closed super easy. There is just a slight "grip" between the top and bottom retainer and the grooves just lock. Also, I think I needed to clench down or bite down occasionally during the night to relax the jaw muscle and the retainer makes that safe and comfortable.

I only wear the retainers at night with my dreamwear mask. I take them out in the morning, rinse them, and plop them in a cute container with an efferdent fizzy cleaning tablet until the night.

I've mentioned before that getting a dentist to make a retainer, (or if anyone has even the slightest imperfection in their teeth that they've always wanted to correct), I think getting some sort of invisalign braces to act as your cpap mouthgaurd would be a big win/win.

Wishing you Good Luck, tl424! And a future of minimalist super comfortable cpap masks!

~~~grace

It worked to my great surprise. I have low muscle tone from a genetic disorder and my tongue was never in the right place. I also have an abnormal swallow. But I really practiced and now my tongue is always there when I'm not eating or talking. If it worked for me, it should work for pretty much anybody.