Mask leak or mouth leak (and how to stop the latter)

Hey fellow PAPers:

I am now almost 2 months into using my PAP. I haven't missed a night and there have been (and still are) some rough patches. I'll start off by saying I'm not one of those overnight success stories--most days I still feel pretty tired, usually around 1-2 PM. I do, however, have really good days where I feel great (maybe 1-2 per week) but the majority of them I notice maybe slight improvement of my overall fatigue. I've been told that's rather normal for being this new and that it can take up to 3+ to start noticing and even then, it will likely be incremental and not an overnight success (no pun intended).

Mask leak vs. Mouth Leak
I have a new set of nasal pillows that I've found really comfortable (F&P Brevida Nasal Pillow Mask). I have several different kinds which I rotate, but this one has emerged as most comfortable. The challenge I'm having is leaks. As I've begun to "relax" with my mask on me at night, my jaw opens (not my mouth) and my tongue shifts positions so the air fills my mouth like a puffer fish--and voila, mask leak.

The mask itself might leak slightly, but the mouth leak is substantial--so much so I'm anywhere from 30-40 L/mi. That said, my events are super low--ranging from 0.1-0.4 per night. My doc (who is very engaged and knowledgable) said to her, the leak is irrelevant as long as my events are low. The only time my leaks would be significant would be:
A- If my events increased to more than 5.0
B- The mouth leak itself was keeping me awake

Does this sound right to you all? And if so, I think I am approaching option B.

Mouth leak--and how to stop it
I've tried chin straps, hair bands, and all sorts of different things. But the issue for me isn't keeping the mouth closed so much as it is location of the tongue. It's worse when I sleep on my back (preferred position) and it's hard to fall asleep unless I knock myself out with some combo of melatonin and/or NyQuil, which I hate to do. I've even ordered some horseshoe shaped travel pillows to wear backward to see if that will help prop my jaw up while I sleep (they have yet to arrive)

I do get dry mouth, but not terribly--I've found upping the humidity on my machine helps that significantly. I've also ordered a full face mask (ResMed Quattro) which hasn't arrived--but now that I've done more research on this, I suspect that won't resolve my issue and instead I'll still be waking up with that sensation, the only difference is my mouth will be inside a mask instead of out in the open air.

Questions for the group:
I am aware of this site from a previous thread--has anyone used it and does it help? https://ladydentistanchorage.com/tongue ... -it-helps/
Has anyone found any other effective way to stop mouth leak caused by the tongue relaxing and allowing air to escape into/through the mouth? Or is this something I just get used to over time like the machine/masks themselves?
Is there anything in the content above that raises red flags for you as longer-term users that I may be doing incorrectly or need to adjust?

Thanks...so glad you're all here!

Many here try to sleep with their tongues braced behind their top teeth overnight, though how well it works is a question as no one can tell what happens overnight of course, but some say it helps. However, not everyone can do that and it's highly unlikely to 'cure' your apnea in any case... anatomy between people can be very different and the Alaskan doctor sounds a bit idealistic, unrealistic with regard to thinking all can keep their tongues on the roof of their mouths all the time... I know I certainly couldn't at all.

Tape your lips, see if that fixes it.

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:38 pm

Tape your lips, see if that fixes it.

I've tried--doesn't do a thing. Plus I have facial hair, so yeah, that's fun too. Wax job!

Shave job? Lots of people with beards and 'stashes have trouble at times with mask fit.

BigMoose13 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:47 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:38 pm

Tape your lips, see if that fixes it.

I've tried--doesn't do a thing. Plus I have facial hair, so yeah, that's fun too. Wax job!

If you've adequately taped, so that you can't blow air out your lips, then you're not mouth leaking.

hey, moose!

on that hairband dealio....are you talking using Scuncis? if so, you may have to get a bit creative with it. i use that trick, modified, along with a cervical collar. the modification on the scunci trick is that i don't use them EXACTLY as jay describes the process.

i use one scunci across my mouth that goes up over the crown of my head. i use another (actually a smaller diameter hairband from Goody) across my mouth and then down the back of my neck. this is topped off with an elastic band over the top of said Goody.

this all sounds cumbersome, but it works for me.

as to the tongue positioning trick, many here have done it successfully. i have never gotten the hang of it. to each their own.

good luck!

ETA: i have a full beard and mustache too and DID NOT want to shave! hence the method i described above.

moose!

i don't seem to be able to attach pictures in private mail and i'm to lazy to dig up the old way of hosting them off site and linking. i guess everyone here will just have avert their gaze!

me in the hairband rigmarole for bed time-
and then the bands themselves. all of these are available at my local Kroger store affiliate. (Fryes) as you can see, the second band that goes around my jaw and the back of my neck is slightly smaller.

and then the elastic piece. the collar goes on last and helps keep things in place.

oh! i do add a piece of folded kleenex between the Sunci and my lips, just in case any drool comes out.

hope this helps!

Julie wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:23 pm

Many here try to sleep with their tongues braced behind their top teeth overnight, though how well it works is a question as no one can tell what happens overnight of course, but some say it helps. However, not everyone can do that and it's highly unlikely to 'cure' your apnea in any case... anatomy between people can be very different and the Alaskan doctor sounds a bit idealistic, unrealistic with regard to thinking all can keep their tongues on the roof of their mouths all the time... I know I certainly couldn't at all.

Thank you for that reality check. Yeah--and it cures bad posture, eyesight and apparently homeliness as well. Who knew? Panacea!

who was that masked man???

zonker wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:32 pm

moose!

i don't seem to be able to attach pictures in private mail and i'm to lazy to dig up the old way of hosting them off site and linking. i guess everyone here will just have avert their gaze!

me in the hairband rigmarole for bed time-

IMG_0081.JPG

IMG_0080.JPG

and then the bands themselves. all of these are available at my local Kroger store affiliate. (Fryes) as you can see, the second band that goes around my jaw and the back of my neck is slightly smaller.

and then the elastic piece. the collar goes on last and helps keep things in place.

oh! i do add a piece of folded kleenex between the Sunci and my lips, just in case any drool comes out.

hope this helps!

IMG_0082.JPG

Holy heck Zonker that is quite the setup! I can’t even imagine trying that. My spouse thinks my getup now is already crazy.

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:20 pm

who was that masked man???

That's our ZOnker!

BTW, thank you, Zonker for sharing your routine/images. I may be borrowing some/all of that!

CPAPSteve wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:54 pm

Holy heck Zonker that is quite the setup! I can’t even imagine trying that. My spouse thinks my getup now is already crazy.

the first time i got up in the night to go pee, it startled the hell outa the dog!



BUT it works for me and i hope it can work for others....

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:52 am

CPAPSteve wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:54 pm

Holy heck Zonker that is quite the setup! I can’t even imagine trying that. My spouse thinks my getup now is already crazy.

the first time i got up in the night to go pee, it startled the hell outa the dog!



BUT it works for me and i hope it can work for others....

Hahahaha I just came back from a camping trip with some buddies of mine and I was sharing a tent with one of guys and in the middle of the night I guess he was dreaming of his wife and decided that I was his wife and hugged me I woke up startled and he woke up and freaked out thinking that he had gotten in bed with Batman’s villain Bane! Suffice to say it was mildly awkward and funny. A moment we both won’t ever forget.