Mask Liner Frustration!

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:44 pm

Maybe we just need an ugly leak once in a while,
if only to scare off the aliens.

djams · Post by **djams** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:33 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:02 pm
Did you see what PR wrote in your other thread about the leaks?

I did.

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:02 pm
I wouldn't want to see this every night but an occasional night and I slept good and felt good then I don't know that I would be going to super human efforts to do much about it nor would I spend much time worrying about it.

This is the problem - when I use mask liners, I always see something like the posted chart (no matter the mask). The red frowny face on the machine display shows up regularly. I do understand that on this chart, my therapy was unaffected, everything looks normal. In the other thread, I needed help understanding that the machine was still working OK. And this was because I simply didn't believe the pressure line, or the size of the FL's - looked like someone else's chart. I immediately assumed the leaks caused a serious problem. But, I had a really good night with the Dreamwear FFM last night (no mask liner), and the majority of the night has that "foreign look" to it. Didn't realize a mask change could make such a difference (in a good way).

You gotta realize - the machine, SH, MyAir - everything was bitching at me about leaks. It's overwhelming!

I really appreciate everyone chiming in. I DID have a misconception about liners and that's been corrected. I need to change my expectations.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:57 am

djams wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:33 am
You gotta realize - the machine, SH, MyAir - everything was bitching at me about leaks. It's overwhelming!

Yeah, I understand the bitching but sometimes the bitching is a good intentions gone awry.
It's going to bitch if you just went to 25 L/min which is really a super conservative low leak threshold. The machine can actually handle a much higher threshold quite effectively.
From my own personal experience with some large leaks (which I tend to see fairly often)...at around 35 L/min large leak I started seeing some UA flagging happen sometimes....not all the time but sometimes. It wasn't until I was up around 50 L/min that the machine started having issues sensing my own breathing in general and even then not always.

Mr Frowny shows up when leaks are over 24 L/min for at least 30% of the night but doesn't/can't take into account how far over 24 and doesn't/can't take into account how well you slept or feel.
If you spent 32% of the night at 26 L/min Mr Frowny would show up and everyone would bitch about your leak but in real life that tiny amount over 24 L/min means nothing. The machine will still be accurate in terms of sensing and recording and responding at that little of a leak over the red line.

I know people want to get "good numbers"...but the numbers don't guarantee much other than a good math score or Mr Smiley showing up and MyAir sending you some gold stars for leak management and giving you a nice overall score for the night.

You have to decide which is more important...good numbers all the time or sleeping good and feeling good.
The best numbers in the world don't guarantee you will sleep good and feel good.
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
Your body will tell you if your therapy is effective or not...listen to it. You can still keep one eye on the "numbers" but start paying more attention to what your body is telling you.

djams · Post by **djams** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:15 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:57 am

djams wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:33 am
You gotta realize - the machine, SH, MyAir - everything was bitching at me about leaks. It's overwhelming!
Yeah, I understand the bitching but sometimes the bitching is a good intentions gone awry.
It's going to bitch if you just went to 25 L/min which is really a super conservative low leak threshold. The machine can actually handle a much higher threshold quite effectively.
From my own personal experience with some large leaks (which I tend to see fairly often)...at around 35 L/min large leak I started seeing some UA flagging happen sometimes....not all the time but sometimes. It wasn't until I was up around 50 L/min that the machine started having issues sensing my own breathing in general and even then not always.

Mr Frowny shows up when leaks are over 24 L/min for at least 30% of the night but doesn't/can't take into account how far over 24 and doesn't/can't take into account how well you slept or feel.
If you spent 32% of the night at 26 L/min Mr Frowny would show up and everyone would bitch about your leak but in real life that tiny amount over 24 L/min means nothing. The machine will still be accurate in terms of sensing and recording and responding at that little of a leak over the red line.

I know people want to get "good numbers"...but the numbers don't guarantee much other than a good math score or Mr Smiley showing up and MyAir sending you some gold stars for leak management and giving you a nice overall score for the night.

You have to decide which is more important...good numbers all the time or sleeping good and feeling good.
The best numbers in the world don't guarantee you will sleep good and feel good.
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
Your body will tell you if your therapy is effective or not...listen to it. You can still keep one eye on the "numbers" but start paying more attention to what your body is telling you.

I get everything you've said here. Completely. But really this isn't a "good numbers" thing, because so far it doesn't look like it will be an "occasional thing" when I use mask liners. So far, it's been an every night thing when using liners. That's what my frustration/concern is about. I'd like to be able to use them.

I'll keep working at it. With more realistic expectations. The biggest problem was my basic misunderstanding about the purpose of mask liners.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:33 pm

djams wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:15 pm
. So far, it's been an every night thing when using liners. That's what my frustration/concern is about. I'd like to be able to use them.

I'll keep working at it. With more realistic expectations. The biggest problem was my basic misunderstanding about the purpose of mask liners.

Don't get the impression that you can't get good numbers with mask liners... you can...the fact that you are getting good numbers some of the time is evidence of that. You just need to figure out what's going on the rest of the time..

laying down, fiddling with the mask. maybe you need to route the hose differently? etc.

Nanuk · Post by **Nanuk** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:46 pm

So glad it’s not just me!

So far I’ve tried RemZzzs. It sealed well, tickled around the sides and helped my leaks get to zero, and I didn’t have to wear bandaids.

Downsides, they stretch and always slipped on me, defeating the positives. I can deal with that. But I got a cold during my trial. One night I sneezed, and because the liner slipped, it basically became a Kleenex.

My Pad-a-cheek liner arrived today. I’m excited that it might stay in place. But since I still have a cold, might hold off for a bit.

Then again, I’m looking to liners for comfort from skin irritation.

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