Frustrated Non-Apnea CPAP User

Ponycatraz · Post by **Ponycatraz** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:15 pm

Scluvsrain wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:16 am
I find it absolutely fascinating that insomnia can be cured for you by using a CPAP machine.
CPAP treats faulty breathing. It doesn't cure faulty breathing.

CPAP does not treat primary insomnia. If you have secondary insomnia caused by sleep-disordered breathing, CPAP is good at treating it.

Actually I'm diagnosed primary insomnia and do not have sleep disordered breathing. I've been an insomniac (diagnosed and in treatment) for over 30 years and started showing signs of insomnia as a baby (wouldn't nap, couldn't sleep through the night, can't sleep during daylight hours, etc). So I'd disagree with this statement. After many years of treatment, drugs, sleep pattern adjustment, behavior modification and yes even hypnotism the CPAP is the only thing that works.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:24 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm
So I'd disagree with this statement.

The statement is correct. The problem is your doctors diagnosed you with primary insomnia and failed for years to diagnose your sleep-disordered breathing.

CPAP only treats breathing. It does not treat primary insomnia.

Ponycatraz · Post by **Ponycatraz** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:59 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:24 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm
So I'd disagree with this statement.
The statement is correct. The problem is your doctors diagnosed you with primary insomnia and failed for years to diagnose your sleep-disordered breathing.

CPAP only treats breathing. It does not treat primary insomnia.

LOL and this kind of ignorance is exactly why it is so hard for me to get treatment with multiple sleep studies showing no apnea or sleep issues. Thank God my Dr in 2012 wasn't as ignorant as you or else I'd still be taking a large amount of medication. Med free since 2012, multiple sleep studies shown 0 breathing issues.

Ponycatraz · Post by **Ponycatraz** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:01 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:59 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:24 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm
So I'd disagree with this statement.
The statement is correct. The problem is your doctors diagnosed you with primary insomnia and failed for years to diagnose your sleep-disordered breathing.

CPAP only treats breathing. It does not treat primary insomnia.
LOL and this kind of ignorance is exactly why it is so hard for me to get treatment with multiple sleep studies showing no apnea or sleep breathing issues. Thank God my Dr in 2012 wasn't as ignorant as you or else I'd still be taking a large amount of medication. Med free since 2012, multiple sleep studies shown 0 breathing issues.

correction should be Breathing issues and not sleep issue.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:05 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:59 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:24 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm
So I'd disagree with this statement.
The statement is correct. The problem is your doctors diagnosed you with primary insomnia and failed for years to diagnose your sleep-disordered breathing.

CPAP only treats breathing. It does not treat primary insomnia.
LOL and this kind of ignorance ... wasn't as ignorant as you

Welp, another one for the ignore pile.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:38 am

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:59 pm
I'd still be taking a large amount of medication. Med free since 2012, multiple sleep studies shown 0 breathing issues.

It may have been the large amounts of medications that were causing secondary insomnia.

Ponycatraz · Post by **Ponycatraz** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:05 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:38 am

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:59 pm
I'd still be taking a large amount of medication. Med free since 2012, multiple sleep studies shown 0 breathing issues.
It may have been the large amounts of medications that were causing secondary insomnia.

WOW the insomnia medications were causing the insomnia! You are so brilliant. Where is your practice so I can sign up? It is amazing that as an internet warrior that you have managed to diagnose something that 3 hospital systems, multiple sleep studies, and specialists were not able to diagnose. Amazing I guess in the many decades I've been treated no one thought to stop the meds for a large amount of time and see what happened. Oh wait they did.. you know because they are experts in their fields. Guess what... didn't help.

I stand by people like you are exactly why people like me can't get proper treatment, and we have to fight with our insurance companies, etc. Thank God I've gone to EXPERTS in the field and finally found a treatment that works. Hey it also doesn't have any medications... it's amazing that even when I was on the meds that my first time using a cpap I fell asleep in 15 minutes instead of my normal 3 hours... but you know it isn't the cpap it was the drugs causing the problem.

Lets see your next excuse....

Grace~~~ · Post by **Grace~~~** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:24 pm

LOL ~~~

Is this just a set up for a "beating a dead horse joke?"

cpaptalk is so entertaining!

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:10 pm

Grace~~~ wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:24 pm
LOL ~~~

Is this just a set up for a "beating a dead horse joke?"z

Seems to be biting and kicking... not dead.

zoocrewphoto · Post by **zoocrewphoto** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:52 am

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:15 pm

Scluvsrain wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:16 am
I find it absolutely fascinating that insomnia can be cured for you by using a CPAP machine.
CPAP treats faulty breathing. It doesn't cure faulty breathing.

CPAP does not treat primary insomnia. If you have secondary insomnia caused by sleep-disordered breathing, CPAP is good at treating it.
Actually I'm diagnosed primary insomnia and do not have sleep disordered breathing. I've been an insomniac (diagnosed and in treatment) for over 30 years and started showing signs of insomnia as a baby (wouldn't nap, couldn't sleep through the night, can't sleep during daylight hours, etc). So I'd disagree with this statement. After many years of treatment, drugs, sleep pattern adjustment, behavior modification and yes even hypnotism the CPAP is the only thing that works.

I believe there are still some breathing issues that can't be fully diagnosed. For example, there are people who have lots of short events that don't qualify as events (too short), but are so frequent that it does cause sleep problems. CPAP often helps, but it is hard to get diagnosed since it doesn't show up easily, and it won't show results in the data. Basically the person either feels better or they don't.

Back when I started cpap, I learned that some people who are night owls (like me, very severe night owl), actually become a night owl because they are unconsciously avoiding sleep. The brain knows that there is something wrong with the sleep, so it puts it off. Delaying until very tired. I am diagnosed as DSPS (delayed sleep phase syndrome), but if I were to complain about my sleep problem and the need to get up at an early time, most doctors would call it in insomnia and try to treat me for that. My sleep is actually quite normal, just a lot later than most people.

I have also found that I fall asleep faster with cpap. Without cpap, it ca take almost a hour. With cpap, less than 10 minutes, probably less than 5. I have no idea why it makes a difference, but it sure does. I don't know if my brain just trusts it to take care of me and relaxes, or if there is some physical improvement that helps me fall asleep faster.

Whatever it may be, if it works for you, then use it for sure. It is a shame that doctors won't cooperate, and that makes it hard to use insurance. If you need insurance help, then push the doctors for it. Even a dentist can prescribe it, so just find a doctor who will. If you can afford to, buy your own. Either way, it sounds like it makes a huge difference in your sleep quality. Perhaps someday, the science will catch up and be able to diagnose more issues and explain why/how it works.

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:50 am

zoocrewphoto wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:52 am

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:15 pm

Scluvsrain wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:16 am
I find it absolutely fascinating that insomnia can be cured for you by using a CPAP machine.
CPAP treats faulty breathing. It doesn't cure faulty breathing.

CPAP does not treat primary insomnia. If you have secondary insomnia caused by sleep-disordered breathing, CPAP is good at treating it.
Actually I'm diagnosed primary insomnia and do not have sleep disordered breathing. I've been an insomniac (diagnosed and in treatment) for over 30 years and started showing signs of insomnia as a baby (wouldn't nap, couldn't sleep through the night, can't sleep during daylight hours, etc). So I'd disagree with this statement. After many years of treatment, drugs, sleep pattern adjustment, behavior modification and yes even hypnotism the CPAP is the only thing that works.
I believe there are still some breathing issues that can't be fully diagnosed. For example, there are people who have lots of short events that don't qualify as events (too short), but are so frequent that it does cause sleep problems. CPAP often helps, but it is hard to get diagnosed since it doesn't show up easily, and it won't show results in the data. Basically the person either feels better or they don't.

Back when I started cpap, I learned that some people who are night owls (like me, very severe night owl), actually become a night owl because they are unconsciously avoiding sleep. The brain knows that there is something wrong with the sleep, so it puts it off. Delaying until very tired. I am diagnosed as DSPS (delayed sleep phase syndrome), but if I were to complain about my sleep problem and the need to get up at an early time, most doctors would call it in insomnia and try to treat me for that. My sleep is actually quite normal, just a lot later than most people.

I have also found that I fall asleep faster with cpap. Without cpap, it ca take almost a hour. With cpap, less than 10 minutes, probably less than 5. I have no idea why it makes a difference, but it sure does. I don't know if my brain just trusts it to take care of me and relaxes, or if there is some physical improvement that helps me fall asleep faster.

Whatever it may be, if it works for you, then use it for sure. It is a shame that doctors won't cooperate, and that makes it hard to use insurance. If you need insurance help, then push the doctors for it. Even a dentist can prescribe it, so just find a doctor who will. If you can afford to, buy your own. Either way, it sounds like it makes a huge difference in your sleep quality. Perhaps someday, the science will catch up and be able to diagnose more issues and explain why/how it works.

that's all very interesting! and describes my former condition as well. i hated having to go to bed early (10PM) in order to get up early(6AM) to get to work. and it would take me forever to fall asleep.

like you, with cpap, i almost always fall asleep within 10 minutes. or so i assume. how can one really tell?

if left to my own devices, i would stay up until 2 or 3 in the morning and sleep until noon. and did this often during summer vacation from school.

i think what you said about putting off sleep until you feel tired is spot on for me, as well.

thanks for sharing that.

Ponycatraz · Post by **Ponycatraz** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:09 pm

I believe there are still some breathing issues that can't be fully diagnosed. For example, there are people who have lots of short events that don't qualify as events (too short), but are so frequent that it does cause sleep problems. CPAP often helps, but it is hard to get diagnosed since it doesn't show up easily, and it won't show results in the data. Basically the person either feels better or they don't.

Back when I started cpap, I learned that some people who are night owls (like me, very severe night owl), actually become a night owl because they are unconsciously avoiding sleep. The brain knows that there is something wrong with the sleep, so it puts it off. Delaying until very tired. I am diagnosed as DSPS (delayed sleep phase syndrome), but if I were to complain about my sleep problem and the need to get up at an early time, most doctors would call it in insomnia and try to treat me for that. My sleep is actually quite normal, just a lot later than most people.

I have also found that I fall asleep faster with cpap. Without cpap, it ca take almost a hour. With cpap, less than 10 minutes, probably less than 5. I have no idea why it makes a difference, but it sure does. I don't know if my brain just trusts it to take care of me and relaxes, or if there is some physical improvement that helps me fall asleep faster.

Whatever it may be, if it works for you, then use it for sure. It is a shame that doctors won't cooperate, and that makes it hard to use insurance. If you need insurance help, then push the doctors for it. Even a dentist can prescribe it, so just find a doctor who will. If you can afford to, buy your own. Either way, it sounds like it makes a huge difference in your sleep quality. Perhaps someday, the science will catch up and be able to diagnose more issues and explain why/how it works.

Thank you for the info! Unfortunately without a sleep study showing I need it my insurance has said it is "off label use" and refuse to pay for anything even when I've had a prescriptions. I was lucky with my first machine and was able to get a rental cheap from the med supply place. All my other supplies have been purchased by me so I've gotten very good at cleaning everything and taking care of it. Luckily my machine has been super easy to work on and take care of as well.

Thanks for the info on the dentist! I didn't think about that. I've also just started with a NP who is fantastic and very open to treatments so I should be able to get prescriptions going forward, though it seems to be much cheaper to buy from the places that don't need a prescription. I just replaced my mask (first time since 2012) from a pet supply place on Amazon at way cheaper then I would have paid.

My sleep is very similar. I can fall asleep only between 10pm & 1am. If I stay up after that I can't fall asleep until the next night in that window. I generally can't sleep past 3-4 am any day. I can't sleep during the day. 2-3 hours to fall asleep without the cpap and 10-15 with. It doesn't help with me waking up early but since I can fall asleep quickly I can get up to 6 hours a night instead of 3 max.

CowFish · Post by **CowFish** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:01 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm
Actually I'm diagnosed primary insomnia and do not have sleep disordered breathing. I've been an insomniac (diagnosed and in treatment) for over 30 years and started showing signs of insomnia as a baby (wouldn't nap, couldn't sleep through the night, can't sleep during daylight hours, etc). So I'd disagree with this statement. After many years of treatment, drugs, sleep pattern adjustment, behavior modification and yes even hypnotism the CPAP is the only thing that works.

I would like to know what about CPAP treats primary insomnia.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:02 pm

CowFish wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:01 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm
Actually I'm diagnosed primary insomnia and do not have sleep disordered breathing. I've been an insomniac (diagnosed and in treatment) for over 30 years and started showing signs of insomnia as a baby (wouldn't nap, couldn't sleep through the night, can't sleep during daylight hours, etc). So I'd disagree with this statement. After many years of treatment, drugs, sleep pattern adjustment, behavior modification and yes even hypnotism the CPAP is the only thing that works.
I would like to know what about CPAP treats primary insomnia.

The placebo affect is documented to actually provide measurable benefit.

Ponycatraz · Post by **Ponycatraz** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:44 pm

CowFish wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:01 pm

Ponycatraz wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:27 pm
Actually I'm diagnosed primary insomnia and do not have sleep disordered breathing. I've been an insomniac (diagnosed and in treatment) for over 30 years and started showing signs of insomnia as a baby (wouldn't nap, couldn't sleep through the night, can't sleep during daylight hours, etc). So I'd disagree with this statement. After many years of treatment, drugs, sleep pattern adjustment, behavior modification and yes even hypnotism the CPAP is the only thing that works.
I would like to know what about CPAP treats primary insomnia.

Very simply the CPAP makes me more comfortable. The air I breathe is always exactly the right temperature and the right humidity. If I get to hot or dry I wake up and then I'm not going to get back to sleep. Even with an eye mask I sleep better with the blanket over my head. The cpap supplies fresh air so I don't wake up because the air is stale. Without it I wake up without fail after a few hours because I've gotten too hot, too dry, or the air is stale.

Frustrated Non-Apnea CPAP User

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