What do DME suppliers do with all those returned CPAP machines?

I am going to get a new bilevel CPAP whenever the DME supplier calls me (it's been two weeks so far and no phone call yet--the doctor says if they don't call me in three weeks, let him know). But I heard that people have to give back their CPAP machines if they don't use them enough for 13 months, under Medicare rules. I imagine this happens a lot. So I am worried the DME supplier will try to give me a used CPAP machine and tell me it is new.

Do I have a right to ask for a new one if they try to do this? Would I be able to tell the difference? Do DME suppliers try to re-sell the returned units, or do they just toss them?

Do you have a right? Make it so. Insist to the DME that you want a machine with zero machine hours. Make sure you know how to access the machine hours on the unit you will be getting. Therapy hours are NOT machine hours. Therapy hours reset every month.

SewTired wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:21 pm

Do you have a right? Make it so. Insist to the DME that you want a machine with zero machine hours. Make sure you know how to access the machine hours on the unit you will be getting. Therapy hours are NOT machine hours. Therapy hours reset every month.

Wow! I did not know that. I don't think my current Philips DreamStation has that menu, even though I know how to access the secret provider's meu. I will check again though. But I know that one was new, since it still had the window protector sticker on the display, and the manual seemed unused. At least, I hope it was new.

SewTired wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:21 pm

Do you have a right? Make it so. Insist to the DME that you want a machine with zero machine hours. Make sure you know how to access the machine hours on the unit you will be getting. Therapy hours are NOT machine hours. Therapy hours reset every month.

That's a new one on me. Who told you therapy hours started resetting every month? I don't know of any that do that.

machine hours run for the life of the machine and can't be reset. user hours start at zero with a new patient if they are reset.

some insurance companies don't care if you are given a new or used machine.

I just checked. It has that menu! Why do my therapy hours say 837.2, but my blower hours say 848.9??


And why does my start day say May 4, when I started uysing the machine (sporadically) back in December??

What does my complance code of "6C" mean? Why does it says "Days > 4" is 26, when I have been using it for 6-9 hours per night since March or April? Is my machine lying?

Cool down time and ramp time are counted in blower hours, but not usage hours.
Mine are much farther apart, and I checked the blower hours on my machine when I got it.
My blower hours were zero on day one.

Cool down time and ramp time are counted in blower hours, but not usage hours.

While true of the ResMed machines the OP here has a Respironics machine and it doesn't do cool down periods.
Now it might have some "breathing not detected" time in those run hours which would be omitted from the therapy hours.

I don't know if the provider manual goes into much detail abut run hours vs therapy hours or dates or why the starting dates are weird but get the manual and read and see what it says.
You can request it here via email.
https://www.apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap- ... tup-manual

As to what DMEs might do with a returned machine....it depends on the DME. I know some who won't dispense a returned machine at all...and I know some who try to pass off used as brand new. You would need to ask the DME.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:06 pm

Cool down time and ramp time are counted in blower hours, but not usage hours.
Mine are much farther apart, and I checked tge blower hours on my machine when I got it.
My blower hours were zero on day one.

Thank you! I thnk the reason my hours are so close is because I turned off the ramp becasue it didn't give me enough air to breathe. I will also check the blower hours on my new CPAP when I get it.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:25 pm

Cool down time and ramp time are counted in blower hours, but not usage hours.

While true of the ResMed machines the OP here has a Respironics machine and it doesn't do cool down periods.
Now it might have some "breathing not detected" time in those run hours which would be omitted from the therapy hours.

I don't know if the provider manual goes into much detail abut run hours vs therapy hours or dates or why the starting dates are weird but get the manual and read and see what it says.
You can request it here via email.
https://www.apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap- ... tup-manual

As to what DMEs might do with a returned machine....it depends on the DME. I know some who won't dispense a returned machine at all...and I know some who try to pass off used as brand new. You would need to ask the DME.

Yep, a few times I took the mask off in the middle of the night but let the machine run for a hour by itself (I also turned off the auto off). I will check out getting a manual and also talk to the DME supplier about making sure I get a new machine

greatunclebill wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:42 pm

SewTired wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:21 pm

Do you have a right? Make it so. Insist to the DME that you want a machine with zero machine hours. Make sure you know how to access the machine hours on the unit you will be getting. Therapy hours are NOT machine hours. Therapy hours reset every month.

That's a new one on me. Who told you therapy hours started resetting every month? I don't know of any that do that.

That's because they don't.

mileena wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:45 pm

I am going to get a new bilevel CPAP whenever the DME supplier calls me (it's been two weeks so far and no phone call yet--the doctor says if they don't call me in three weeks, let him know). But I heard that people have to give back their CPAP machines if they don't use them enough for 13 months, under Medicare rules. I imagine this happens a lot. So I am worried the DME supplier will try to give me a used CPAP machine and tell me it is new.

Do I have a right to ask for a new one if they try to do this? Would I be able to tell the difference? Do DME suppliers try to re-sell the returned units, or do they just toss them?

Medicare compliance is 90 days..not 13 months...and it doesn't happen "often".

Medicare compliance usage rules.

During the first 90 days of starting therapy you have to use the machine at least 4 hours a night for 70% out of 30 consecutive nights. So 21 out of 30.
You might meet the 30 days from day one and be done with it by the 31st day...or sometime in between.

Second part of the requirement...a face to face meeting with your doctor to document that the 30 days with at least 70% of the nights with at least 4 hours of therapy...and that the therapy is helping.....and this face to face has to happen prior to the 91st day after getting the machine.

So 2 part requirement.

The 13 month thing is just the rent to own time period and has nothing to do with compliance.

As for how often Medicare patients don't meet the requirements...there are provisions for asking for extensions and extra help in meeting those requirements if someone has a problem. They are usually given a lot more time than 90 days to make it work and Medicare has appeals processes in place.

greatunclebill wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:42 pm

SewTired wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:21 pm

Do you have a right? Make it so. Insist to the DME that you want a machine with zero machine hours. Make sure you know how to access the machine hours on the unit you will be getting. Therapy hours are NOT machine hours. Therapy hours reset every month.

That's a new one on me. Who told you therapy hours started resetting every month? I don't know of any that do that.

machine hours run for the life of the machine and can't be reset. user hours start at zero with a new patient if they are reset.

some insurance companies don't care if you are given a new or used machine.

Mine do... every month. If you have a Resmed machine, yours does as well. Go to the clinical settings. Select Sleep Report. Almost immediately, you should see PERIOD: ONE MONTH. Scroll down and you get the hours. Those hours are reset every month. Even the S9 had this feature, so it's not new. I don't have access to a DreamStation. Clearly by the photos, that one does not reset. But the Resmed does.

I agree that some insurance companies don't care if you get a new or used machine. Advocate for yourself. You pay for your machine. It's the only one you are going to paid for by insurance for 5 years (probably), so insist on a ZERO HOUR machine. It's your money.

mileena wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:31 pm

Wow! I did not know that. I don't think my current Philips DreamStation has that menu, even though I know how to access the secret provider's meu. I will check again though. But I know that one was new, since it still had the window protector sticker on the display, and the manual seemed unused. At least, I hope it was new.

Don't depend on packaging to tell you something is new. So long as it is not required to be sterile, they can simply repackage it nicely and put those little protector stickers back on. They do it at electronics stores all the time.

SewTired wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:57 pm

Mine do... every month. If you have a Resmed machine, yours does as well. Go to the clinical settings. Select Sleep Report. Almost immediately, you should see PERIOD: ONE MONTH. Scroll down and you get the hours. Those hours are reset every month. Even the S9 had this feature, so it's not new. I don't have access to a DreamStation. Clearly by the photos, that one does not reset.

That one month period does not reset every month. It is the treatment hours for the last 30 days, and adjusts every day depending on how long you run the machine. If you check that figure every day, you will find it varies very little, depending on the difference in the hours you slept last night and the hours you slept 31 nights ago.If you sleep 8 hours, it will not be 8 hours more than it was the day before unless you did not use the machine 31 nights ago.

SewTired wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:57 pm

Mine do... every month. If you have a Resmed machine, yours does as well. Go to the clinical settings. Select Sleep Report. Almost immediately, you should see PERIOD: ONE MONTH. Scroll down and you get the hours. Those hours are reset every month. Even the S9 had this feature, so it's not new. I don't have access to a DreamStation. Clearly by the photos, that one does not reset. But the Resmed does.

ResMed does not reset the recorded hours every month. The Airsense 10 Autoset records 365 days of compliance/summary data. The report option setting just lets you set the length of the period used for the rolling average for the Sleep Report, "1 Day / 1 Week / 1 Month / 3 Months / 6 Months / 1 Year"