Does anyone ever just give up on cpap?

I think that the failure rate could be reduced if patients had more hands on and effective monitoring of what might be causing whatever problem the person is having that makes them want to give up on cpap.

I think that the failure rate could be reduced if people didn't have unrealistic expectations of what cpap can do. Often there are other things going on that the cpap can't fix (medication side effects or other health issues or even plain old insomnia that is totally unrelated to sleep disordered breathing) and they give up because they think cpap should/could fix something it can't fix "so cpap isn't helping and I might as well not use it" type of thinking happens.

I think that there is always going to be some people who find that cpap creates more sleep problems than it fixes for any number of reasons even with good/better attention from their medical care team and optimized therapy. It's unfortunate but a cold hard fact of life with any medical problem and potential fix. Nothing is ever totally perfect and nothing works 100% of the time with 100% of the people.
So there is a time and place for those other alternatives to cpap for some people. Some therapy is better than no therapy in my book. Any reduction in the number of sleep apnea events happening is better than no reduction even if the reduction is from 50 to 25...far from ideal for sure but better than no reduction at all. Those other alternatives don't come baggage free though. They come with their own potentials for disrupting sleep...nothing is perfect for everyone.

Thank you Pugsy. Your post should put an end to this deteriorating discussion on an intelligent and considerate note. Good job.

bombayone wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:25 am

this deteriorating discussion

How could it be deteriorating on page 7? It already hit rock bottom when this was posted on the first page:

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:17 am

In order to improve the symptom it may be necessary to address the root cause...

When someone stresses the superiority of CPAP, that fact should not be taken by anyone else as a wholesale condemnation of the established alternatives, which are very valuable and possibly lifesaving to those who are unable, or unwilling, to use the superior treatment.

Likewise, no one with moderate-to-severe OSA should mistake the discussions of CPAP alternatives as meaning that there is no reason to give the superior treatment of CPAP the full shot with full effort.

Good diet and exercise are of utmost important for all human beings. However, there is no indication whatsoever that once moderate-to-severe OSA has continued for years it can be reversed effectively with the simple removal of any of the associated factors that may have played a role in triggering it. That is perhaps possible, in exceptional circumstances. But no research supports it being a reasonable alternative with any significant rate of success for the moderate-to-severe. Thus the significance of the earlier "unicorn" comment by one of the posters here.

There is no dishonor in "giving up on CPAP" when one has truly given it the full shot and has been unable to make a go of it. At that point, "giving up" in the sense of trying something else may be the very smartest thing to do, if one's doctor agrees. Look for other real, established approaches in a methodical, scientific, medical fashion.

However, that position does not mean it is ever the course of wisdom to listen to those who imply that CPAP is mere treatment of a symptom and that some iffy alternative approach somehow gets at the "real" issue. That slop is mere disinformation based on packaging a series of misunderstandings into something risky for oneself and others. That slop is the riskiest, deadliest "diet" served anywhere.

Try CPAP. Do what it takes to make it work. If you find CPAP impossible, THAT is the time to begin examining alternatives. Not before.

The important thing is understanding that the best health comes from never choosing to exchange the merely inconvenient for the totally unproven. So if you get to the point of needing to choose an alternative, please choose to try a real alternative with some real literature behind it and a proven track record of actually doing a significant number of people some significant good, in case that just so happens to turn out to be the case for you, too. However, please note that this process should NOT include giving ANY weight at ALL to some rogue dudes in an Internet forum playing around with some tools that they don't know how to use.

It's a good thing these "rogue dudes" are here in a CPAP forum. They could be in another forum where people don't know any better, and their dangerous claims don't get countered.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:38 am

Superball wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:54 am

Superball

Welcome to the forum. It may not seem like it at times, but this forum is heavily tilted to the rational, practical side. You make a nice addition to that side.

Yeah, I think I might just be in love...

DeepFriedDuck wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:15 am

It's a good thing these "rogue dudes" are here in a CPAP forum. They could be in another forum where people don't know any better, and their dangerous claims don't get countered.

Good point. Well said.

Then again, maybe I should just give up, sell my symptom-treating APAP, and then go blow up a balloon with my nose while gargling my cinnamon-chamomile-peppermint tea spiked with honey and tumeric milk during my lavender-scented-Epsom-salt bath followed up with some garlic-flavored almonds. Yeah, that should get to the real root of my problem. I mean, after all, what publication could possibly be more reputable than the good old RD that I grew up reading, right? :

https://www.rd.com/health/healthcare/ho ... eep-apnea/

Pardon me for my troubles with embracing what's left of the so-called information age.

There's a lot of crazy stuff out there; it ain't just here.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:22 am

DeepFriedDuck wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:15 am

It's a good thing these "rogue dudes" are here in a CPAP forum. They could be in another forum where people don't know any better, and their dangerous claims don't get countered.

Good point. Well said.

Then again, maybe I should just give up, sell my symptom-treating APAP, and then go blow up a balloon with my nose while gargling my cinnamon-chamomile-peppermint tea spiked with honey and tumeric milk during my lavender-scented-Epsom-salt bath followed up with some garlic-flavored almonds.

Only if you post video..

DO EET DOOO EEEET!!!

* suddenly recalls last night's eerie dream of being tauntingly dared at forkpoint by a mini red demon wearing high tops *

I bought him high HEELS; but he refuses to wear them.

What tangled non-webbed toes we weave.

Uff Da, thank you for your comments. At lot of people with sleep apnea are overweight and the finger gets pointed at loosing weight. It is good to hear from a skinny person.

chunkyfrog, no one is blaming anyone. People discover they have the symptom of sleep apnea. Then they go through the process of trying to making CPAP therapy work. A few are successful and we can help them optimize this therapy. The rest are the focus of this thread. I started thinking in terms of a root cause because I have several in my group that have been diagnosed with sleep apnea but can not tolerate CPAP. As a friend I decided to explore what is available outside of CPAP.

The general consensus is to use CPAP or die... That isn't good enough for me.

palerider, I am not looking for anything to cure me. I am simply looking at how I can remove various stress from my body so it can heal itself. I totally agree with the typical stereotype of what a sleep apnea person should look like. Several of my friends are lean and don't fit the traditional profile.

Pugsy, you hit the nail on the head. IF the root cause results in sleep apnea, then CPAP is the way to go. However IF the root cause involves sleep apnea, poor sleep hygiene, and a number of other issues, then CPAP is only going to address part of the symptom. That person may be more prone to give up on CPAP thinking it is ineffective and resolving all of their problems.

I think these people need education so they can evaluate a bigger picture than simply focusing on AHI.

Jeff, I totally agree that the best treatment of the symptom of sleep apnea is CPAP. I started this journey a little over 8 years ago and plan on continuing until I go several months with an AHI of 0 and then may kick around the idea of having another sleep study done. The big problem is that while I have no issues using CPAP I have a number of friends that failed in the use of it. At this point alternatives may help a little.

It appears that most here only focus on CPAP and are unable to think beyond that. I accept that, but that will not stop me from trying to help my friends figure out a way to eliminate the root cause of their sleep apnea even if they can't tolerate CPAP. As we find solutions I will be sure to keep everyone informed.

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:03 pm

It appears that most here only focus on CPAP and are unable to think beyond that. I accept that, but that will not stop me from trying to help my friends figure out a way to eliminate the root cause of their sleep apnea even if they can't tolerate CPAP. As we find solutions I will be sure to keep everyone informed.

why don't you take your quest to some place where the whole purpose is more than CPAPhelp?

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:08 am

I think that the failure rate could be reduced if people didn't have unrealistic expectations of what cpap can do. Often there are other things going on that the cpap can't fix (medication side effects or other health issues or even plain old insomnia that is totally unrelated to sleep disordered breathing) and they give up because they think cpap should/could fix something it can't fix "so cpap isn't helping and I might as well not use it" type of thinking happens.

Exactly. CPAP can fix SDB, but it can not fix poor sleep resulting from other causes. Once SDB is treated and poor sleep remains, I think many resort to dial wingin' trying to fix poor sleep rather than undertaking the rather difficult task of methodically eliminating the possible causes of poor sleep and applying the lifestyle changes (sleep hygiene) that may be beneficial. When dial wingin' fails, I think many give up entirely.

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:03 pm

It appears that most here only focus on CPAP and are unable to think beyond that.

I beg your pardon? This forum is an excellent resource on sleep hygiene, diet, exercise, diabetes, nasal congestion, nasal surgeries, drugs, drug side effects, drug interactions, anxiety, depression, mattresses, pillows, sleeping positions, reflux and GERD, allergies, alcohol consumption, digestive issues, pain, oral health, RLS, PLMD, REM disorder, narcolepsy, cholesterol, weight loss, posture, hypertension, AFIB, heart arrhythmia, blood-oxygen levels, hyperventilation, oxygen supplementation, hernia, headaches and migraines, PMS, CHF, pneumothorax, tobacco use, ghost blood vessels, third-shift sleep schedule, rotating shifts and backpacking! All of these have been discussed in the last thirty days!