first night with cpap, please help interprety graphs

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:06 am

zackds wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:02 am

pugsy, whenever i try to sleep on my back, i always sleep worse. i almost always wake up with a racing heart. i know this is true for people who have sleep apnea. could it also be true if someone didnt have sleep apnea?

Generally only if they have sleep apnea, or at least some form of sleep disordered breathing.

its odd because, although it was only one nights worth of data based on my sleepyhead graph, pugsy said the machine wasnt responding to anything

I never said nothing was happening. All I said was the machine didn't want to do much.
You have to understand that these machines don't go trying to do anything if you have some sort of apnea event during the event itself. Instead it has a complicated algorithm where it needs a certain set of criteria to happen with the combinations of snores, Flow Limitations, OAs and hyponeas before it does anything.

If you do have an apnea event of some sort the machine won't do anything but think about what to do next or does it even need to do anything.

You were thinking that if you had an apnea event the machine would respond right during the event and try to blow the airway open????
Doesn't work that way. It can't blow that hard.

Not to mention we don't know that something related to apnea on when on your back is the cause of the racing heart thing.
It's a maybe.
Ever have a bad dream and wake up with the pulse racing? I sure have. Yeah, most commonly we think of sleep apnea events maybe causing it during the night but there are other things that can cause it.

Let me know if the box doesn't arrive today.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:32 pm

I never said nothing was happening. All I said was the machine didn't want to do much.
You have to understand that these machines don't go trying to do anything if you have some sort of apnea event during the event itself. Instead it has a complicated algorithm where it needs a certain set of criteria to happen with the combinations of snores, Flow Limitations, OAs and hyponeas before it does anything.

If you do have an apnea event of some sort the machine won't do anything but think about what to do next or does it even need to do anything.

You were thinking that if you had an apnea event the machine would respond right during the event and try to blow the airway open????
Doesn't work that way. It can't blow that hard.

Not to mention we don't know that something related to apnea on when on your back is the cause of the racing heart thing.
It's a maybe.
Ever have a bad dream and wake up with the pulse racing? I sure have. Yeah, most commonly we think of sleep apnea events maybe causing it during the night but there are other things that can cause it.

Let me know if the box doesn't arrive today.

yep, thats hoe i thought it worked haha
could you tell me how the machine exactly works so i can understand?
also, i got the box and set the mask up
it fits well and feels very nice, i cant wait to try it tonight
the tank is a bit too big for this model humidifier

crap...it's the lid making it too big. The bottom part of the water chamber is the same for both the 50 and 60 series machines.
You need a different lid. Sorry, I don't have one. I was afraid of that.

Anyone have a spare lid for the 50 series water chamber or a spare chamber????
You can get the kit from cpap.com but I know money is tight right now.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... l-kit.html

Give me a few minutes and let me see if I can find Robysue's much better explanation of how the algorithm works.
She explains it so much better than I can.

And yeah, most people tend to think that the machine is going to blow right through the closed up airway immediately and it can't.
It can't move enough air fast enough to blow it open. The whole idea behind the air and the pressure is to hold the airway open and prevent the collapse in the first place.

In this thread forum member Robysue has composed a post that is quite detailed where she explains the differences between the apap models from ResMed and Respironics. She mentions the 60 series but the information about the algorithms is the same because they didn't change algorithms when they went from the 50 series (that you have) to the 60 series. Mainly the 60 series added a heated hose.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82990&p=866535&hili ... cs#p866535
Just find her post and she has it in sections with one labeled algorithm and she explains how it works as best we can.

Minor differences between the 2 brands' algorithms so they take a slightly different path to the same end goal of holding the airway open and preventing the collapses.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:00 pm

In this thread forum member Robysue has composed a post that is quite detailed where she explains the differences between the apap models from ResMed and Respironics. She mentions the 60 series but the information about the algorithms is the same because they didn't change algorithms when they went from the 50 series (that you have) to the 60 series. Mainly the 60 series added a heated hose.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82990&p=866535&hili ... cs#p866535
Just find her post and she has it in sections with one labeled algorithm and she explains how it works as best we can.

Minor differences between the 2 brands' algorithms so they take a slightly different path to the same end goal of holding the airway open and preventing the collapses.

ok one thing, why did my machine flag so many hypopneas?
when i zoom in on these occasions, it does seem that i wake up at these times
wouldnt the machine want to respond and up the pressure overall?
it also said my ahi is about 4

I don't know why the machine didn't do more in response to the hyponeas.
I assume that something else was missing.
It's a complicated combination of different signs that the airway is trying to collapse that makes the auto algorithm kick in.
It's not necessarily one thing or one group of things. Exactly what that criteria is they don't make public. We just know the general stuff.

Heck, maybe you were awake and it was SWJ and nothing else went along with it that the machine didn't like so it did nothing.

Remember awake flagged events don't count and I know you had quite bit of awake time that first night.

I know it's hard to do but quit worrying about the AHI...until you can tell me that you slept for 3 or 4 solidly with no wake ups and the flow rate confirms it...I can't put a lot of faith in that AHI.

I once was helping a guy whose AHI was in the mid 20s...about half central and half obstructive. I thought for sure that he needed ASV for the centrals but upon further investigation it was discovered that he was having some insomnia issues and spending a lot of time awake with the mask and machine on and doing a lot of tossing and turning. So we backed up and addressed the insomnia issues and once he was sleeping and not spending so much time awake on the machine his AHI dropped to between 1.0 and 2.0. Pretty much all of his AHI was SWJ or sleep/wake/junk and it simply didn't count and his machine wasn't responding either.

Tonight I want you to do something for me...each time you wake up reach over and push the button to turn the machine off and then push it again immediately to turn it right back on. This will give us a definite marker that we can look at to see if anything happen right before the wake up in terms of a flagged event or if the flagged event happens right after you turn the machine off and on again.
We can see the breaks in the therapy line when you do that and that way we have a known for sure awake time and anything flagged within a close time proximity probably is SWJ.

zackds wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:18 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:06 am

zackds wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:02 am

pugsy, whenever i try to sleep on my back, i always sleep worse. i almost always wake up with a racing heart. i know this is true for people who have sleep apnea. could it also be true if someone didnt have sleep apnea?

Generally only if they have sleep apnea, or at least some form of sleep disordered breathing.

its odd because, although it was only one nights worth of data based on my sleepyhead graph, pugsy said the machine wasnt responding to anything

You had (if I added it up right) an AHI of almost 4 in that one graph... The fact that the machine wasn't doing much is a by-product of the lazy (some might say 'gentle') algorithm of your type of machine.... not that there was nothing to respond to.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:32 pm

You were thinking that if you had an apnea event the machine would respond right during the event and try to blow the airway open????
Doesn't work that way. It can't blow that hard.

Even if it could, sometimes the way the airway blocks, more pressure would just be like pushing harder on a door that opens towards you... Something that's certainly not obvious to most people. (I've seen video... somewhere on youtube)

zackds wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:20 pm

ok one thing, why did my machine flag so many hypopneas?

Because your pressure is too low... Respironics machines often need a higher minimum pressure, because they're often kinda slow to respond.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzCCgNLya_g

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:56 pm

Because your pressure is too low... Respironics machines often need a higher minimum pressure, because they're often kinda slow to respond.

We are trying to self diagnose right now. Prove a need first and then work on tweaking pressures.
Hence the low pressure...I want to see if the damn machine will move at all.
And he needs to get some sleep to have any chance to have a good test. The one report above...crappy sleep from most likely first night effect. At least 5 known wake ups where the machine was turned off, screwed with and back on.
It's not a reliable result to base anything on.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:12 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:56 pm

Because your pressure is too low... Respironics machines often need a higher minimum pressure, because they're often kinda slow to respond.

We are trying to self diagnose right now. Prove a need first and then work on tweaking pressures.
Hence the low pressure...I want to see if the damn machine will move at all.
And he needs to get some sleep to have any chance to have a good test. The one report above...crappy sleep from most likely first night effect. At least 5 known wake ups where the machine was turned off, screwed with and back on.
It's not a reliable result to base anything on.

Fair enough... I'll shut up now

for some reason i put my sd card into sleepyhead today and i guess my cpap didnt record anything last night
i think i didnt push it in all the way
i tried to turn the therapy on and off every time i woke up too haha
too many to count honestly
i notice on days where i work out with greater intensity i wake up more
also i noticed that i woke up a couple of times with air blowing out of my mouth with the nasal mask

Put the sd card back in your computer after making sure it got reseated in the machine.
Download again. Your machine stores a good bit of information on its internal memory and you didn’t lose much.
Try again with another download. You will lose the flow rate graph but you willl have the other graphs.

ok cool, here are my results
i had to up the pressure because 4 was uncomfortable
if needed though i can lower it more
not sure what to make of the results but it felt like
i woke up 10-15 times last night
i dont think i had a racing heart wake up though